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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 5:04 pm |
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Joined: 02 October 2006 Posts: 2145 Location: the south, USA
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TheThain, I most certainly did not.  Well I am glad of that. Hmmm, (looks back over post) I think my comment about the gpa and such, did end up sounding alot more snobbish than I had intended though. Uh, sorry if that did sound that way. I just meant that my family and I are are bad to get into the whole thought process of things (when it comes to movies). (not that anyone here doesn't though. I am just saying that that is something that my family and I enjoy doing.)
Well I think that there were a few loose ends but nothing that really had me sitting there going "but what about this...and that...and them....ect". For example the Tia Dalma and Davy Jones relationship. I think that if they had had one more scene it would have completely wrapped their storyline up... to the point that they could not use them in a possable following movie. Also they could have told what mark Jack left on Beckett. That detail is one that many people that I know want to hear explained. So personaly I think that with the exception of those two small things, that for the most part there were no major lose ends. Uh some people view Jack's ending as a lose end as well but I expect a spin off....latter on that will explain all of that you could more to Willabeth's story but that would not just Have to be there. So for the most part, I would say no. The lose ends were covered for the most part, in my opinion. Do you think that there were lose ends, which story(ies) do you think were lose ends, would you like to see another movie that would uh tie up those lose ends or would you preffer that they just leave it be at this point?
You probabley right. I do not think that anyone could change my mind on that one. lol
_________________ Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&?  Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 6:03 pm |
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Joined: 03 March 2006 Posts: 1905 Location: Middle Earth. Country:
Gender: Female
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TheThain wrote: ^I find it really hard to give the writters a break. If they couldn't get a good story out in the certain time frame, why didn't they wait? They seemed to just throw everything together and hope that the people who loved CotBP would get sucked into seeing the next 2. And that's what happened. If an AWE-type movie had been the first in the series, I don't think Pirates would have done very well at all.
It's not that simple. Disney already wanted to movie to be shot in 05. The director was in the middle of casting before they were done writing DMC. They didn't have time to wait.
If you watch the extras on the DMC dvd you'll see how much pressure the writers were under to get the script done in a short amount of time.
You don't seem to understand the business side of this. They didn't expect they would do two more movies for Pirates because they tied up everything in the first film. Dinesy plucked them from whereever they were and said write two more movies for us.
So if you want to blame someone for what you think is a shotty movie, blame Disney.
_________________ "There's an ocean between.....where I am and where I want to be" 
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 6:19 pm |
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Joined: 03 January 2006 Posts: 13134 Location: Canada Country:
Gender: Female
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@B_R: It's a line from Bucket i think, and he's in your signature i believe, so it was... kind of both.
You must remember, the Pirate writers didn't have books to work out of, the LotR screen writers did.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and i do stronly disagree with TheThain, i'm not going to voice my opinions. People know what they are, and if disagree, fine, if you dont, perfect.
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 6:52 pm |
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Joined: 03 March 2006 Posts: 1905 Location: Middle Earth. Country:
Gender: Female
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Dark, Queen of Angmar wrote: @B_R: It's a line from Bucket i think, and he's in your signature i believe, so it was... kind of both.
What line? Now I'm lost lol.
_________________ "There's an ocean between.....where I am and where I want to be" 
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 7:10 pm |
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Joined: 03 January 2006 Posts: 13134 Location: Canada Country:
Gender: Female
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"Oh well, thats annoying isnt it?"
something like that... i think...
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 7:37 pm |
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Joined: 03 March 2006 Posts: 1905 Location: Middle Earth. Country:
Gender: Female
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Oh yeah alright. I think I remember that quote lol.
_________________ "There's an ocean between.....where I am and where I want to be" 
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 8:52 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2007 Posts: 2156
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Drew's Destiny wrote: Do you think that there were lose ends, which story(ies) do you think were lose ends, would you like to see another movie that would uh tie up those lose ends or would you preffer that they just leave it be at this point?
I agree with the loose ends you pointed out. Also, you get this whole thing between Will and Elizabeth where they weren't talking to each other. Then, out of nowhere, Will asks her to marry him. I undersatnd that he felt that it was his only chance, but I would have liked to see them resolve their little problems before the wedding.
Both of the deals between Jack and Becket and Will and Becket, weren't really followed through. They just made the deal, and left it at that.
And then there were just some un-needed and pointless parts. Singapore didn't need to be there. The whole mulitple Jacks wasn't necessary (and why they never reappeared is beyond me). Norrington's death was pointless. And so on.
I really don't want another movie. I'll fill in the gaps myself and probably get a better ending then I would if a 4th was made.
Dark, Queen of Angmar, I respect your (and everyone's) view. I'm the kind of person who likes to discuss my opinions with others, but I'm not sure this is the right time/place for that. Besides, I'm not sure how long I'll be able to hold out against all of you! 
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 9:11 pm |
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Joined: 02 October 2006 Posts: 2145 Location: the south, USA
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TheThain, First of all I was reading over what you and Bananna_Republic were speaking (typing about) and I must say that if you are in anyway unhappy with how the story was written that you are indeed correct in blaming the writters, in my opinion. There is no one but the writter's to blame for the writting. It is their job. Also I agree that if they were unable (or had been unable in my opinion...since I think that the story is fine the way it is, except for minor things) that they should not have released it at all. If they are going to sell it then they need to feel sure that the product they are selling will be worth the cosumer's (in this case us and everyone else who paid their money to go and see Pirates of the Caribbean at World's End) money. Art takes time. Though I understand that there was a deadline, If they felt that their story would not please the fans then they should have sat down and had a serious discusion with the producers ect about chaning/pushing back the deadline so that the product would be a product with buying. I think that for the writters they were really stuck between a rock and a hard place and that they did the best that they could (and that it turned out allright in the end).
(Then secondly and so forth...) Hmm good point. However I just took it that Will decided that he could forgive Elizabeth and loved her even though she was flawed and that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her, right that exact moment. Like Will did not resolve it in a prolonged manner. Um, I feel like they did show us that. However I would not have minded it being elaborated upon a bit more. I could always handle more Will after all.  Very true. I wondered though if they had had most of that pre planned though with one another (Will and Jack I mean). I think that they just had the Singapore stuff so that they could give Elizabeth more power....I could have done with alot less of it. lol I supose it needed to be there to explain how Elizabeth gained one of the nine peices of eight but it certainly could have been shorter. Ah poor Norrington. I miss him. (sniffle) I wish that they had kept him alive. Um they killed him pretty much for Willabeth and because they could not come up with a better ending for hm (in short) as far as I can tell. So there is one that I missed when I made my list. I agree with you one hundred and ten percent on that one!
Oh, I can see your point. Many people that I have talked to share that opinion. The writter's could go a bit crazy with it and wreck. Sometimes it is nice if you can imagine the very ending of your favorite movie(s) for yourself.  Personaly speaking though as I said earlier...if it had William (Orlando Bloom) in it...I would watch it.
Thanks for replying/answering my questions. 
_________________ Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&?  Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 9:19 pm |
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Joined: 03 March 2006 Posts: 1905 Location: Middle Earth. Country:
Gender: Female
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You know that if the writers had said no we don't want to write the movie script because we don't have time Disney would have gone and found different writers who probably wouldn't have been able to capture the characters as well. I think it's BS to blame someone when really a lot of that situation was out of their control. You try writing two movies in a year with a huge corperation breathing down your neck, with directors *bleeping* at you because things aren't done when they want them to be, and see if you can write anything better. You blame them for the shotty stoy line, and yes to an extent it's their fault but to have no sympathy for them when they worked so hard, and to not blame Disney for not giving them enough time to write an amazing script is BS!
_________________ "There's an ocean between.....where I am and where I want to be" 
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 9:21 pm |
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Joined: 04 June 2005 Posts: 4449 Location: Northern USA
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EA & JF - Just want to clarify that I was saddened by Norry's death too  Just not as much as you two  But I see you both have gorgeous Norry banners in your sigs now!
JF - Would you please share the ending you made up? I wasn't completely satisfied with this one either, so I'd love to hear yours! 
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<center> icon & banner by me skyward-thoughts</center>
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 9:25 pm |
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Joined: 03 June 2005 Posts: 13144 Location: Heaven: Rockin' with Severus Snape Country:
Gender: Female
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Personally I didn't think AWE was a wreck at all. It was actually quite good for the amount of time the writers were given. Yes, the story line was hard to follow, but I couldn't help loving it anyway. It was jam packed with new people and places and new problems the characters had to deal with.
Besides, CotBP for me was nothing more than fun and adventure. The Willabeth love story and Jack's life story were just blossoming. How could they not have done more? My one complaint about it was that it was much too long [don't shoot me!]. How many battles were there anyway?
My initial thought when I saw DMC was that I loved it. We'd been given some exciting new characters and several exciting new plots. This one was packed, not as much as AWE, but it was packed. And it was good fun, especially the great cliff hanger at the end.
AWE is my all time favourite. It's great to look back and ask, "What if they hadn't made anymore movies?" Everyone's destinies were met and most of the plot lines were tied up. The maelstrom battle was the best I've ever seen despite the fact that there was a lot of special effects. This movie moved me more emotionally than any of the others had. And, there was enough humour for DMC and AWE combined. 
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 9:27 pm |
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Joined: 03 March 2006 Posts: 1905 Location: Middle Earth. Country:
Gender: Female
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Larael wrote: Personally I didn't think AWE was a wreck at all. It was actually quite good for the amount of time the writers were given. Yes, the story line was hard to follow, but I couldn't help loving it anyway. It was jam packed with new people and places and new problems the characters had to deal with.
Yes finally someone who agrees with me lol. I was beginning to feel alone.
_________________ "There's an ocean between.....where I am and where I want to be" 
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Post subject: Posted: June 4th, 2007, 11:23 pm |
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Joined: 10 July 2005 Posts: 23149 Location: Where there are handsome heroes and sexy villains.. all that need some lovin' ;) Country:
Gender: Female
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Wow, I never realised so much had been discussed today. *gets typing fingers ready*
Elven Archer wrote: Johnny's Fan wrote: ^ Join the club. I'll never ever get over it either. Or be happy about that part. Ever. Not if I watch it 10 million times. Nice to see someone else who was saddened by his death. Glad you liked the film though. Some parts of it for me niggle me, and I don't like the ending but I'll live I suppose. I've already invented my own ending so I'll just ignore the last 15 minutes or so.  Oh we should make a club for it! I agree, I will never ever ever be happy not in a million years over Norrie's un-needed death. Yes it gave it more drama, but I'm mad! (I guess they couldn't figure out what they were going to do with him....but he could have gone back to Port Royal! *shakes fist*) Eh, I made up another ending too, but when I saw the movie I thought the end was alright. (I think I know what your ending is.....and I like it, it's a good idea). We do have a Norrie club though. I should probably go there to express my admiration for the character. I can think of 6 ways the same amount of drama could have been given.... but alas I am not an over-paid writer. Lol, I posted my perfect ending a while back. I'll have to see if I can find it again. BTW, love your banner.  Banana_Republic wrote: And it seemed to me that all of the betraying that was going on, wasn't them actually betraying each other. For the most part they were playing Beckett for a fool and leading him straight into a trap. Yeah, my brother thinks this as well. I'm not really sure though as there are some aspects of it (i.e Will wanting the Pearl) that were definitely not part of any plan they all may have had. I'll have to watch it again.TheThain wrote: ^I find it really hard to give the writters a break. If they couldn't get a good story out in the certain time frame, why didn't they wait? They seemed to just throw everything together and hope that the people who loved CotBP would get sucked into seeing the next 2. And that's what happened. If an AWE-type movie had been the first in the series, I don't think Pirates would have done very well at all. Well it would have been the studios that demanded a script within a certain time, and not the writers. As such the writers do as they are told.Drew's Destiny wrote: TheThain, Thank you very much for posting that artical.  I enjoyed reding it. However I highly disagree with the author's point of view. I and my family over all did not find it confusing at all. Even my father who says that he "just watches the movie" understood it. There were bits that you had to take a few seconds to contemplate, you had to try to figure out which deals to betray the other(s) were truely to betray the others (aka one to none) and which ones had been planned but nothing that really interrupted the storyline. I saw it as pretty straight forward. (shrugs) Well personally, I always find with these big action packed special effects films, that I tend to get so blown away by the scale of it all, so I don't really "get" plots that aren't straightforwad. Even my brother who has seen more films than I have had hot dinners, and knows the ins and outs of movies etc, didn't get the plot to begin with. It was only talking about it afterwards, that we got it. TheThain wrote: I agree with the loose ends you pointed out. Also, you get this whole thing between Will and Elizabeth where they weren't talking to each other. Then, out of nowhere, Will asks her to marry him. I undersatnd that he felt that it was his only chance, but I would have liked to see them resolve their little problems before the wedding. Both of the deals between Jack and Becket and Will and Becket, weren't really followed through. They just made the deal, and left it at that. And then there were just some un-needed and pointless parts. Singapore didn't need to be there. The whole mulitple Jacks wasn't necessary (and why they never reappeared is beyond me). Norrington's death was pointless. And so on. I really don't want another movie. I'll fill in the gaps myself and probably get a better ending then I would if a 4th was made.  Dark, Queen of Angmar, I respect your (and everyone's) view. I'm the kind of person who likes to discuss my opinions with others, but I'm not sure this is the right time/place for that. Besides, I'm not sure how long I'll be able to hold out against all of you!  Yes, I agree with you. For me anyway, there are loose ends and things that are labelled as "conclusions" by other people are labelled "well what happened next?" by me.
I actually never thought about the Will and Elizabeth bit but it does make some sort of sense. I think of the two, Elizabeth treated Will a bit.... I don't know... shoddily... so for her to suddenly be all fine and dandy when he asked her to marry her was a bit strange.... I would have liked a bit of an argument and then he convince her to marry him.
Well you could say lots of scene in films are pointless. But then again why go to Singapore to try and get this Captain on your side only for him to die like 40 minutes into the film. Well... we all know why. They went to Singapore so they would meet Sao Feng, so they could make him think Elizabeth was Calypso, so the writers could kill him off, so he would make Elizabteh a Pirate Lord, so it would give her something to do of importance, and then eventually make her Queen and give her a rousing speech. That's why they went to Singapore. Oh, and something about some charts as well. 
The multiple Jacks never really appared again because he was no longer in Davy Jones locker. The majority of them appeared I think because he was affected by the heat, hence the fact a couple of Jacks appeared later on the movie.
Norrington's death was the most pointless part of the trilogy.Drew's Destiny wrote: Ah poor Norrington. I miss him. (sniffle) I wish that they had kept him alive. Um they killed him pretty much for Willabeth and because they could not come up with a better ending for hm (in short) as far as I can tell. Sorry, I have to really disagree with you there. There is no way the writers would kill of Norrington because of "Willabeth". The only people who even call them "Willabeth" are the fans of the pairing. Norribeth, Sparrowbeth - they only ever existed in the minds of you and me and other people. Killing him off because they couldn't figure out what to do with him - entirely possible. Gilraen Ringeril wrote: EA & JF - Just want to clarify that I was saddened by Norry's death too  Just not as much as you two  But I see you both have gorgeous Norry banners in your sigs now!  JF - Would you please share the ending you made up? I wasn't completely satisfied with this one either, so I'd love to hear yours!  Phew. I was beginning to think we were the only ones around here at the moment. Thank you. 
Whoo.. just found this again on page 165....  Johnny's Fan wrote: My ending is one of two things.
Will doesn't get stabbed. Norrington didn't die. He went with Lizzie to help them. Norrie is fighting Davy Jones and he get's stabbed and is dying. Lizzie, feeling guilty for being angry at him, and sorry for him, snatches the heart from Jack so Norrie stabs it instead. Norrie is redeemed, and he is happy to do the task he is given as it means that is he still a man of the sea, and he is doing something worth while. Jack is a bit upset at losing his chance for immortality and he sets about after the Fountain of Youth. Lizzie and Will are with Barbossa on the Black Pearl - we are unsure whether they too are going to search for the Founatin with Barbossa or are just hitching a lift home. Will is happy because his dad his technically free, and he is under the command of a good man. Will and Elizabeth look at each other as they sail away, and we know they are going to be all right.
My other ending is pretty similar, expect Norrington doesn't get injured in the battle with Jones, it is Bootstrap. Jack does the right thing and actually offers the heart to Will. The same thing happens with the ending. But Norrington stays with the remains of the Navy men, and we presume he will go back to join the Navy, now he has redeemed himself, and the Navy is once again Beckett-free.
Larael wrote: Personally I didn't think AWE was a wreck at all. It was actually quite good for the amount of time the writers were given. Yes, the story line was hard to follow, but I couldn't help loving it anyway. It was jam packed with new people and places and new problems the characters had to deal with. Besides, CotBP for me was nothing more than fun and adventure. The Willabeth love story and Jack's life story were just blossoming. How could they not have done more? My one complaint about it was that it was much too long [don't shoot me!]. How many battles were there anyway? My initial thought when I saw DMC was that I loved it. We'd been given some exciting new characters and several exciting new plots. This one was packed, not as much as AWE, but it was packed. And it was good fun, especially the great cliff hanger at the end. AWE is my all time favourite. It's great to look back and ask, "What if they hadn't made anymore movies?" Everyone's destinies were met and most of the plot lines were tied up. The maelstrom battle was the best I've ever seen despite the fact that there was a lot of special effects. This movie moved me more emotionally than any of the others had. And, there was enough humour for DMC and AWE combined. 
I have to agree with you. Even though I was disappointed with some parts of the film and other parts I hated, I knew this was the best. It was dark enough for us to know the main storyline (saving the Pirate way of life) was important and to be taken seriously, but also enough funny moments for us to remember that it is their to entertain us.
_________________ 

^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*
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Post subject: Posted: June 5th, 2007, 12:42 am |
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Joined: 18 August 2006 Posts: 3735 Country:
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Post subject: Posted: June 5th, 2007, 9:21 am |
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Joined: 10 July 2005 Posts: 23149 Location: Where there are handsome heroes and sexy villains.. all that need some lovin' ;) Country:
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Post subject: Posted: June 5th, 2007, 11:34 am |
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Joined: 02 October 2006 Posts: 2145 Location: the south, USA
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Banana_Republic, I said that I thought that it did turn out fine in the end and that the writters did do a good job. I Did like the movie. I loved it. In fact it is one of if not my very favorite movies of all time. Now it is in the ranks with Lord of the Rings. It's just that that I think that If anyone was unhappy with how the movie was written that they should blame the writters. The way the story was written in the end really does come down to the writters. It is their job to write the story. I understand that they had pressure coming from the studio (and I do have a certain amount of smypathy for them because of it) but at the end of the day it was their job and pressure is a part of that job. Once again though personaly speaking I think that the movie was great. (huggles Pirates of the Caribbean at World's end)
JF, Oh, I am sorry. Well I am glad that it seems more clear now. I really do not know why but, I just did not have a hard time following the story overall. (shrugs)
Well I will agree that usaly Willabeth is a term of endearment for the couple. However some non Willabeth fans probabley use the term as well. I am neigther a Sparrowbether or a Norribether but I use those both of those terms. I strongly disagree with you on that one. Sparrowbeth and Norribeth both had basis on screen, in my opinion. In Curse of the Black Pearl Elizabeth was engaged to Norrington and in At World's End he did kiss her. Now it was Elizabeth that put an end to their relationship, so with Will gone to be Captain of the Flying Dutchman and Norrington obviously still in love with her....what would stop Elizabeth from from running back to Norrginton? She isn't the most faithful person as far as I can tell...until the part where we are suposed to believe that she was faithful to William for ten years. Then in Curse of the Black Pearl she flirted to quite an extent with Jack (especialy on the island) and in Dead Man's Chest she kissed him, gave him the opppertunity to kiss her, and when she was holding the compass it pointed to Jack. Therefore I think that both Sparrrowbeth and Norribeth had basis in the films themselves even though I did not like it. Those were both matters that had to be resolved in At World's End. They resolved Norribeth by killing Norrington (to my great disappointment) and Sparrowbeth by sending Jack off on another adventure.
As for why there were multiple Jacks...I think that they did that to show us his mental state at that point in the story. He was stuck in Davy Jones' locker all by himself and it is a proven fact that if a person is left alone for long enough they will actauly go insane. That is what I think was happening there. Between the heat, the stress, and the fact that he was all alone Jack just lose his allready lose grip on sanity for awhile.
_________________ Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&?  Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!
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