As for me, I dont feel it a show of superiority. Im just proud to think I stand on the earth that my long gone kinfolk did. Its my kinda thing. The days of the empire are gone, and we are like Gondor, a remnant of Old Numenor but we dont long for those old days as much
at least I dont really.

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

i have NEVER used my britishness as a sign of superiority. i only mentioned the fact that i can trace my heritage back to 12thC staffordhire because mephiston had said that was where he was from. i hate that i can't say i'm proud of my roots or proud of my heritage without being made to feel guilty about it. and i'm not just referring to what's been said here - it seems to be a common misconception that british patriotism is a negative thing, only to be associated with the evils of empire, racism, and a superiority complex, but it's simply not true.

sorry, rant over. just had to say that.

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**MY BOOK**

~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>

So many people use their heritage and such to make themselves more superior to others, and truthfully, I don't think it matters. I could care less whether your a first generation Brit or if you can trace your history all the way back to the middle ages. Just as long as your proud of where you're from is all that matters to me. And this is coming from a Brit who can trace her history back to, well.. as long as Bristol has been around, and who happens to also be a second generation Brit at the same time.

*ahem* *cough* Your comment about your heritage, merely reminded that there is an awful lot of snobbishness when it comes to ancestry among the British. There is nothing wrong with being able to trace where you came from or where your family originated, but the truth of the matter is, some people (and not even the rich or posh) use this "ancestry" to their advantage and the dismay of others. British patriotism is not a negtative thing if displayed by the right people...if not....then I think it's a pretty poor sight and those people are a disgrace to their nation.

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

^I don't think ethelfda was trying to be snobbish. She stated a fact. And I don't think it's just British patriotism or ancestry that can be used the wrong way. Really, anyone from any background could be like that. I wouldn't go so far as to call them a disgrace to their nation. That's rather harsh, if you don't mind me saying.

Because your family had leverage a few hundred years ago (or perhaps more recently) doesn't necessarily mean they have any power now. How this gains them advantage or causes the dismay of others is beyond me.

*slowly retreats from what looks like the start of a fight*

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by Lembas

^ i didn't see it, but my dad told me about it. incredible score, shame about the violence.

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<center>

**MY BOOK**

~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>

Can I just ask what you guys think about that the British soldiers who were held captives in Iran wanted to sell their stories? Do you think they should've been allowed or was it right that they were denied it?

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by Lembas

Ahem Tigerily, I would advise we dont speak of it cos it may turn steadily political because of the political climate in which it happened with regard to the legality of the event. I think JF, you may have got the wrong end of the stick with regards to Ethelfda. I dislike snobbery, posh upper class people who think they are better than others and to a degree the tories ( only saying, dont kill me) as much as the next person and that maybe ethelfda was just saying it as a response ot my remark of being a staffy lad. Also miluiel is right. Alot of the old lords etc are not that powerful in reality. The old days of empire are gone and those who controlled it diminished.
BTW JF The only reason I said it is cos Im proud of being English. I love my country, but I hardly have my own servant. My family has scottish, welsh and some countries I dont know of, so Im hardly the "pure blood " posh inbred toffs you sometimes get. I say it not as a mark of superiority, just cos IM proud of my culture and country. There is nowt wrong with occasionally expressing ones love for ones country, as long as it doesnt turn into a habit of everyday speech.
Also thanx for using my new name rather than keeping Eonwesbestmate lol. I was kinda confused when I first tried to log in after the change.

BTW, I saw part of the match. It was GR8!!!!!! That shows what Man U can do in europe, never mind the young squad.
and if u want violence go back about a week to the first leg. Thats violence......

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

i feel bad now, like i've caused some ongoing tension. sorry. shall we just say no more about it?

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<center>

**MY BOOK**

~ proud to be a shieldmaiden for christ ~</center>

I dont think u have.Not deliberately anyways. Its just some interpretations. I agree, lets leave it and let it drop

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"This is the hour of the Shire-folk, when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great. Who of all the Wise could have foreseen it? Or, if they are wise, why should they expect to know it, until the hour has struck? "

Yeah, it was only a snippet of violence, nothing compared to how hooliaganism used to be, like in the 80's.

And Man U were bloody brilliant, fantastic to watch.

Its amazing, effectively 3 english teams in the semi final!

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I never said she was being snobbish. My mentioning of snobbishness was not even directed at her, I was just saying that the whole discussion of ancestry reminded me of a programme that was on a while ago about the fact, whether we like it or not, people can be snobbish about such things.

And yes, I'm sorry, but people who go around with a superior air, gang up on people who can't find British ancestors dating back before WWII, cause fights, beat up and spit on people with less ancestry than themselves, yes they are a disgrace to their nation.

And don't for a minute think I am directing ^^ this at anyone in this thread, because I am not...before another spat starts....I'd like to think people know me better by now, than to think I would "randomly" accuse people of things and insult them.

Patriotism is a wonderful thing. But let us not be blind to the downsides either.

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

Alright I will post... but I refuse to talk about football (although that video was amazing - how many goals did they score?)

I never saw anything offensive or accusing in anyone's post on the topic so far. We were simply having a discussion on patriotism and how certain people (just people in general, not aimed at anyone here) would use their ancestry to show off superiority - or not. In fact I think everyone just voiced their opinions, but did so in a friendly atmosphere. I may be utterly slow and ignorant but I never felt any tension in the discussion. This is how people speak when they exchange opinions on a matter they see from different perspectives.
Fear not...


I don't know much about how they sold their stories or what they said in the interviews, but I believe the soldiers have a great need to tell their version of the story, especially if it's true that the Iranian authorities made them tell lies and had them apologizing on TV because of the pressure that was put on them. I don't know how the British administration has handled the case, so I think it depends on whether the soldiers are still on duty or act as civilians, also there is the matter about diplomacy etc.

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Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara

I see I do understand them if they feel they need to tell their stories, but selling them for as much money as they did just doesn't seem right to me... :/

@ Eonwe: I didn't mean for this to become a political discussion, I just wanted to hear what you British people think about it, cause it's been on the news a lot and stuff. Also, I wanted to change the topic, cause from what I could see people were starting to disagree and I thought a change of topic could be nice so that we don't start fighting and stuff.

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by Lembas

@ Ellie - sorry, but it had to be said. I made a promise to myself a long time ago, after spending many years of listening to other people and staying quiet, so say what I think and speak my mind.



While they were captured the reports were that they were happy, eating fish and chips etc etc, and apologising of their own free will. I believe 100% when the Navy says they were in neutral territority, so why did they say they made a mistake? Lots of people are calling them cowards for apologizing and for not giving them a hard time...but it has just been revealed that they were basically continually blindfolded and didn't have a clue what was going on. Who are we to say what they were threatened with if they did not apologize? There was also a female captured so what would she have been threatened with?

I think their stories do need to be told - just so the Iranians don't think they have got away with it. Calling their release a "gift" to Britain is a load of rubbish, what they really mean is "we know we were wrong so we're trying to get out of it as best we can". I know some people who lost sons, brothers etc, are not happy with the offical go-ahead to these stories being sold, as they say if they wrote a story about their loved ones who died it would be disrespectful to their memories.....but...these soldiers are writing about something completely different...so it's not quite the same thing really....and more people do need to know what really happened..as for the money....what's wrong with that? I'm sure the days they spent captured and the time they had is worth £10,000 compensation.

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*