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Post subject:  Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 6:32 pm |
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..... I also think we could say it's because the actress is not the best at conveying emotions. It does happen. And I think on most people's part, when someone you love dies, you cry and so when you see a similar thing on the screen, you expect that person to cry as well. It's a natural thing to expect of an emotional scene, so when you don't see something like that, your first reaction is not to try and get inside the characters head, or evaluate their trials and tribulations, but think "why the heck are they being so donwnright cold and inhuman?".
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 6:37 pm |
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Hmm.. I think that's where we disagree. I don't think it was bad acting or anything like that, and for some reason I really didn't expect Elizabeth to cry. If we're getting on her case about crying then maybe we should ask why Will didn't cry. He has just as much of a right to cry as she does.
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 6:56 pm |
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I'm not saying I expected her to cry when Will left, as knowing Elizabeth I am presuming she was trying to be strong for both of them, as at least she will be able to lead a semi-normal life for the 10 years, whereas Will won't. The main parts that stuck out to me as possible under-acting was her father's death and Norrington's death. Now granted, there was nothing ever mentioned of Norrington's death, so I wasn't really expecting 55 minutes later for Elizabeth to sit down quietly and possibly reflect and weep. The acting of total elation at seeing her father, and then the dawning realization that he was in fact dead, was very believeable, but the fact that she seemed to be screaming more than crying seemed a bit.... hammy.... as people have said, it may have been written that way, and she may have acted it as she was meant to, but for me, it didn't work and I think a better actress may have made that scene more poigant and moving. Again, there were no scenes later on in the film to even remotely suggest to the audience to she was upset (not the actresses fault, granted) but that is something I was looking forward to, as it would have been nice to see Elizabeth shed a few years for her dead father.
As for Will... well it has been mentioned on a few ocassions about the time these people are living in.... I don't know... would a man have been seen to cry? Would that not suggest he was soft and not worthy of commanding? I just don't know about that.
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 7:39 pm |
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Daerka Greenhand wrote: Besides for all we know she could have been "cried out". As Melda said, Elizabeth has just been through the most terrifying and trying time of her life. After all that she must have been absolutely emotionally drained. Sometimes even if you want to cry, you can't, because you've gone through so much already. I also think that besides the emotional drain she went through, Elizabeth has also accepted the fact that she won't see Will for 10 years. She doesn't cry because she knows it won't be the end and that they'll see eachother again. When you think of it that way, things tend to brighten up a bit.  That's a really good point. She's seen and been through so much, she could be just so emotionally worn down to the point where she literally cannot cry actual tears.
I'll say it again, not everyone reacts to death and grief in the same way.
When my mother passed, and I was there when it happened, I didn't shed any tears for almost two years. So I can vouch personally that you cannot tell how someone will react to the death of a loved one. _________________ 
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 7:40 pm |
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Joined: 28 November 2006
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...Interesting how my innocent*ish* joke triggered a huge debate/discussion. 
(Funny thing, I never really thought about Elizabeth's not crying that much. I was more confused about where that black dress she was wearing on the island came from.   ) _________________ 
Thanks RA, Elenriel, PD/Aliana Dawn, Arwen, Aramel, Shadowcat, Nurr, Tar-Dis!
Pippin of Herenya's Line - "...give nothing back!"
Got fed up and eloped with Ragetti 1-3-08 
PHYLLIS, THE ANTI-SUSPIAN!
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 7:54 pm |
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... and as I said....from an early age I think most people associate deaths with people being upset, and that carries through later in life, so when a character on screen dies, who you see has a good relationship with a family member, you do sort of expect some crying at some point. Which is why to me, it struck a wrong chord and didn't work very well. I would have liked for once to Elizabeth to have a good long wail about all that has happened to her and what it has led to.
Heh, I wondered that as well.
Going back to my (much) earlier question. Does anyone else know where the Beckett unforms have comes from? So called, because all of Beckett's men and second in commands, wear this really expensive looking gold and blue uniforms, which we never see in the first two films. Also Murtogg and Mullroy are wearing something completely different to their COTBP uniform (don't know if it's because they have been promoted or something). Also the colours matches Beckett's ship which I thought was odd. It may have been the same for the Navy ships in COTBP, but the gold really stood out, so that's why I noticed it.
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 8:10 pm |
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I think this is where you and I differ.
I don't expect anything. I let the movie unravel and the characters to develop as intended. Elizabeth didn't crumble into a wailing banshee, it truthfully didn't bother me at all.
But I understand where you're coming from.
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 8:18 pm |
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 9:12 pm |
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I think the movie maker's logic in not making Elizabeth cry was that she's too strong a character. The question was raised why didn't Will cry, so why should Elizabeth cry if she's as strong as Will, or stronger? I suppose that makes sense, but they forgot it's harder to convey feelings on screen. After all, the strongest person will be sad, and the most blatant and touching way to express sadness in a movie is tears. So I still think that a few tears wouldn't have hurt Elizabeth's strong character. And if she can't cry, then can't she be at least a little downcast?
Gwearyan Goatcloset wrote: Going back to my (much) earlier question. Does anyone else know where the Beckett unforms have comes from? So called, because all of Beckett's men and second in commands, wear this really expensive looking gold and blue uniforms, which we never see in the first two films. Also Murtogg and Mullroy are wearing something completely different to their COTBP uniform (don't know if it's because they have been promoted or something). Also the colours matches Beckett's ship which I thought was odd. It may have been the same for the Navy ships in COTBP, but the gold really stood out, so that's why I noticed it.
I'm pretty sure they changed into the uniforms that the East India Trading Company gave them. After all Beckett had authority as governer so he had authority of the military as well. So they no long wore the uniforms of England since they were under charge of the EITC. _________________ 
Last edited by Taurquende on June 22nd, 2007, 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 9:31 pm |
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Joined: 02 October 2006
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JF, I agree with you. Elizabeth was a strong character but seeing her shed a few tears would not have made her any less strong in my opinion. After all that had happened I would have understood that.
Wow that was truely a Great way to describe Norrington. (high fives JF).
Phoenix, Very good point. I had just never known of anyone who had not cried over losing their parent (especialy when they were as close as Elizabeth and her father were). Now I have though. It is just the difference in people and that is allright with me of course. So I guess I really should cut Elizabeth some slack. However I still have a hard time doing so. I just personaly can not relate to that (no offence meant) and that is the reason why I have a hard time with Elizabeth's reaction. I enjoy watching characters that I can relate to and as I said I had a hard time relating to her durring that scene. Maybe I am just a cry baby though. That may be a bit obvious though as I did cry just watching it. lol (laughs) Another thing is that actors/actresses crying is a huge deal to me. It can make or break an actor/actress in my eyes. Therefore I was dissapointed when she did not cry. I feel like if you are going to play a character who is suposed to cry that you should be able to cry and I am afraid that Keira (in character) can not do it.
Do you know for sure that it said in the script that she was not suposed to cry in any of those scenes? I mean no offence but I am curious.
I did not mind Will not crying because I did felt that it was unneccesary for his character at that point. Back in that day in age (and even now) allmost all men do not cry in places where they can be seen. Men generaly want to be strong for the women that they love. Will loved Elizabeth and felt like she was the one that was giving up so much of her life for him. He wanted to be her rock. I supose he felt like he owed her that. Also on a side note I know that Orlando can cry, very well in fact (example Elizabethtown in the car towards the end), so I was not interrested in seeing as to whether or not he could cry (while in character). _________________ Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&?   Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 9:46 pm |
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The only movie I recall Kiera crying in was Pride and Prejudice after she got that letter from Jane. 
No, I can't be certain that Kiera was told not to cry, but I'd imagine the writers might of wrote in tears if they expected it, or the director would have asked Kiera to cry. And honestly I think it's kind of expected of an actress to be able to work up some tears. 
I also don't think it was necessary for Will to cry, because Will always is happy fulfilling his promises, and right then that promise was to shepherd the souls of the dead. Of course he was sad about leaving Elizabeth, but men generally convey emotions differently than women, and he was able to show that without tears. _________________
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 9:53 pm |
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@ JF: Not quite sure about the uniform issue. Didn't bother me too much, but it is a fair point.
Again, I think I shall have to agree with Phoenix on this. Whilst I did expect a bit more from Elizabeth in the way of mourning, I do understand that the act of grieving is different for everyone, and that that's the way her character was written. I had no problem with that scene or the end scene. However, I did think she bounced back a bit too quickly after Will's "death". She did scream and cry a bit, and look positively devastated when Jack took her away, but afterwards [though we didn't see much of her for a while] she didn't look sad or anything. I guess it was more of a lost look, which is also understandable for the situation, so I dunno why I'm complaining.
@ Phoenix: I'm glad someone else saw my point. I'm sure at least everyone here has had, or will have, some point in their life where several bad/frustrating things have happened in succession and finally the ultimate thing happens and you just feel like you don't have any tears left to cry.
And thanks for sharing the bit about people grieving differently from everyone else as it's very true. When my aunt died, my cousins [her children] didn't cry or anything for months. About 2 or so years later we got together with them one summer and went out to eat. I dunno whether it was because we were all together or what, but suddenly they were all crying and everything. Before I had never realised that people could keep their emotions bottled up like that for so long. 
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 10:25 pm |
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 10:59 pm |
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JF, You are very welcome. You were right a bunch of adjetives was not what I wanted. The sentence you gave was perfect. Hmm I think that I will try my hand at writting one for Will...William Turner is a flawed man but at the same time he is a man who keeps his promises, tries to be good and true, and is not afraid of facing death for those that he loves. Dude, that was hard. lol
Wow I had not really noticed the uniforms. I think that Taurquende is right about them though.
Taurquende, I have never seen that movie. Really Pirates of the Caribbean is nearly the only movie that Keira is in that I have seen. Though up until now I have never heard of her crying in any of her movies either. Well it is cool that she cried in that one. It does make me feel a bit better. I will have to watch that movie some time.
Well I wondered if maybe they mentioned it but Keira didn't/couldn't add the tears in for some reason.
Good points about Will crying. Perhaps also that he felt like he should not have cried because in a way he had chosen it. He chooe to save his father and to save Elizabeth (I am not saving that he should not have...I highly admire him for it).
_________________ Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&? Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!
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Post subject: Posted: June 22nd, 2007, 11:47 pm |
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@ JF- Ah yes, that's most likely right.  Lol. Sorry you forgot dear. I was really begining to get into this discussion. 
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Post subject: Posted: June 23rd, 2007, 3:48 pm |
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If my father died, i'd be useless wreck for at least a year, i wouldnt even try to pick up a sword and fight, i dont understand how she can not convey any sort of emotion... at all. A little bit of sobbing into Will's shoulder, and looking glum while sitting on stairs doesn't cut it for me.
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) more about things like Elizabeth's reactions, etc. It's no big deal really, it's not something I'm going to whizz past when I get it on DVD or anything... lol by the time the DVD comes out, I'll probably even have forgotten about the lack of crying on Elizabeth's part. 
