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Post subject:  Posted: May 25th, 2007, 2:21 pm |
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Joined: 02 October 2006
Posts: 2145
Location: the south, USA
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Warning Major Spoiler Warnings ahead! ***
I literaly just got home from the cinema. So I have a pleanty to talk about.
As for killing Norrington...very disappointed. I agree that there was no good reason for killing him. Personaly I think that that was the fault of the writer's undereistitimating Norrington's popularity and the character's worth. As you said they just wanted to give Elizabeth a moment and disregarded what the character Norrington in himself was. There were so many things that they could have had him do (especialy in possable following films) and they had given him such character growth. Then they just went and threw it all away? Horrible in my opinion. I do think that Norrington did it though to try to make sure that the crew did not try to follow Elizabeth and the others. So that certainly earned the character some respect from me. By the end of the movie I went from saying (in the first movie) that I disliked him, to he was okay, to I love him and why oh why did they have to kill? (shakes head) What a shame to throw all of that away.
As for them killing Swann...I didn't mind his death as much. I do not see as where there was much left for him to do. He could have had a happy reunion/ending with Elizabeth but other than that...there was not much left. Still heart breaking and not neccesary but I didn't want to eat the script because of that scene.
Then...Tia...I didn't not like her character. In DMC I was looking forward to learning more about her. However I think that the took the easy way out with the explanation, too predictable, and boring. I would have rathered that they had just taken her out all together.
Um, also I hated when Will died and yet I loved it. (laughs) Now I know that that did not make any sense. What I mean is that...I wish that they hadn't have killed Will but if they were going to kill him that was the way to do it. It had Major emotional impact (I cried a river...I used my sash/scarf that was around my waist to dry my tears). Also Orlando and Keira and Johnny all nailed the scene. The look on Johnny's face showed all of his feelings, the depth to Keira's screams and the way she was half grabbing at Will's hand, and Orlando/Will despertaely trying to stay and hold onto Elizabeth...was perfect! It was unexpected and it was not at all out of character for Will. Will said in the first movie that he would die for her...and he meant it. He died trying to protect her. Then they had him become captain of the Dutchman so that he could live forever and he and Elizabeth wed...so I will deal with his death as best I can.
On the plus side, I loved their wedding scene. It was beutiful and at the same time funny. One of if not the best wedding on television/movies that I have ever seen. Oh, and their kiss the way the camera spun around it lasted for like five whole minutes...nice pay off for all of the loyal Willabethers (such as myself). The last Willabeth scene was beutiful and the line that "it depends on the day" was priceless.
Um the stuff with Jack half crazy....roll over laughing...wonderful! Johnny Depp can play absolutely anything. (happy dance) Also he had alot of character growth. When he had Will stab the heart to save Will and everyone else, I was so proud of him. I have not always been a Jack fan (Johnny Depp fan...yes. Jack fan...not orginaly) but once he did that I started liking the character. I like the so called goody two shoes/heroic characters (usaly) so that earned him my respect and admiration. Way to go for Jack!
Overall I really enjoyed the movie and give it a 9 out of 10. Totally going to get it once it comes to dvd and it was well worth my money (which is saying alot because I payed half of the money...for five people to go..which I have never done before...laughs).  _________________ Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&?   Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 2:25 pm |
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Joined: 08 June 2005
Posts: 7734
Location: Isengard
Gender: Male
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**** SPPILERS *****
Johnny's Fan wrote: @ Curunìr - Oh, I don't know. I think Barbossa was a very important character in AWE, and I actually think the script recognised that. Well it would have been different because without Barbossa the meeting could never have been called and they would not have gone to war. Same with Jack. Without him, what happened in the film could not have happened.
Hmm... I wouldn't call it a happy ending myself. An "inconvenient ending" would be more appropriate methinks.
No, no sorry I actually was saying that Barbossa was a very important character in AWE. I guess I gave the wrong image with the text and yes the ending was appropriate as it kinda left every character into a `suitable place` so to speak _________________ 
Let him curse my name
On these blood stained pages of misery
Let him call me a tyrant so cruel
Let him curse my name, but remember the truth!
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 2:34 pm |
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Joined: 10 July 2005
Posts: 23149
Location: Where there are handsome heroes and sexy villains.. all that need some lovin' ;)
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Gender: Female
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****SPOILERS****
@ DD - Well I am glad that someone else agree with me about Norrington. And he actually shot the rope because when Elizabeth saw he was in trouble she started crawling back to him, so he shot the rope to stop her. Very noble. I could be extremely petty about this and blame Will and Elizabeth for his death (if you think about it, it is partly their fault) but that would be taking it a bit far, so I'll blame the writers. 
As for Swann....Ok he may not have been important but the word WHY? was screaming at me when we knew he had died. It's almost as if they want to kill everyone who isn't one of the main three, a Pirate or a villain. Weird.
The only thing that bothered me about Tia is the fact she became a giant, and then we never saw her again. And as she is the sea goddess, she didn't really do anything to help our group. She created a storm that neother helped nor hindered either ship or group. A bit pointless really.
Now, about Will dying. I hated that. Seriously. Another attempt to give both him and Elizabeth some weight. Why oh why did they have to have Will stabbed? Just thinkg about it for a minute. If Will had not been stabbed, and let's just say Bootstrap stabbed the heart (when he was fighting Jones I honestly thought he would do that), Bootstrap would be free of the curse as it were, Will would have kept his promise and everything could have ended happily with all our characters avaialbe for a sequel. As it is, Will can only go on dry land one day in 10 years. What use can he be in another film eh? And Elizabeth, she had a kid now, so how can she go off around the world if she needs to in another film?
Again EMOTIONAL PUNCH written all over that scene. Pirates started off as a fun set of films.... this film took it waaay into the realms of seriousness. I want the characters that we started out with back again.
@ Curunìr - Ah, sorry. I think I must have misunderstood. 
_________________ 
^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 2:43 pm |
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Joined: 02 January 2006
Posts: 5728
Location: Mithlond
Country: 
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Well, I really shouldn't be here, since my mom wants me away from the computer until we can see if it's what's been giving me migraines (too many hours staring at the screen, etc), but I have to say that I just saw it, and it was much better than I expected, though it increased the loathing I have for Elizabeth's character--she's too much of a Mary-Sue for me to enjoy her parts of the movie. Will's sections, though, were great, and I thought that Norrington's sections (well, specifically the last one he's in) were also great.
Jack's were okay, Tia Dalma's were weird.
It was a good movie.
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 2:46 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 2156
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:::More Spoilers:::
Johnny's Fan wrote: ****SPOILERS****
Now, about Will dying. I hated that. Seriously. Another attempt to give both him and Elizabeth some weight. Why oh why did they have to have Will stabbed? Just thinkg about it for a minute. If Will had not been stabbed, and let's just say Bootstrap stabbed the heart (when he was fighting Jones I honestly thought he would do that), Bootstrap would be free of the curse as it were, Will would have kept his promise and everything could have ended happily with all our characters avaialbe for a sequel. As it is, Will can only go on dry land one day in 10 years. What use can he be in another film eh? And Elizabeth, she had a kid now, so how can she go off around the world if she needs to in another film?
Ha! So I wasn't the only one who thought Bootstrap would stab Davy! My sister thought I had lost it when I said I did.
And, what do you mean by "Elizabeth has a kid now"??:jawdrop:
Was that said/shown?
Oh, I missed the clip at the end of the movie.  Could someone please tell me what it was about?
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 3:04 pm |
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Joined: 03 January 2006
Posts: 13134
Location: Canada
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Gender: Female
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gah, i can't even come on here in fear of spoilers... *hides until shes seen the movies*
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 3:19 pm |
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Joined: 01 November 2005
Posts: 4785
Location: Middle Earth
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Basically, there is a short clip of Elizabeth and her 10-ish son looking for Will on the horizon as he comes home. It's really sweet but sad. 
Johnny's Fan wrote: **** SPOILERS*****
***NO NOT READ POST***
@ Ea - No matter who tries to give me a sane reason why Norrie was killed, they will never be able to do it. It's just one of those things that has EMOTIONAL IMPACT written all over it in neon lights. And the writers personally need hitting with something, as I believe they didn't give the character the credit he deserved. They cast him aside like a empty paper bag. Norrie would have been great to have in the next film/s. I absolutely understand. That was how I was with the Jack/Elizabeth stuff in DMC. I just would NOT listen to reason. We all have our characters that register extreme pathos. Plus, Norrie's death was just BAD. Johnny's Fan wrote: ****SPOILERS****
Now, about Will dying. I hated that. Seriously. Another attempt to give both him and Elizabeth some weight. Why oh why did they have to have Will stabbed? Just thinkg about it for a minute. If Will had not been stabbed, and let's just say Bootstrap stabbed the heart (when he was fighting Jones I honestly thought he would do that), Bootstrap would be free of the curse as it were, Will would have kept his promise and everything could have ended happily with all our characters avaialbe for a sequel. As it is, Will can only go on dry land one day in 10 years. What use can he be in another film eh? And Elizabeth, she had a kid now, so how can she go off around the world if she needs to in another film?
Hmm...I never considered Barbossa doing it. Excellent idea. Yes, I was incredibly frustrated that Will was stabbed. It just wasn't right. If only Jack had stabbed the heart before Davy stabbed Will!! Aaaaghhhh. At the same time, the scene doesn't make me furious at the filmakers or anything. I think they were following their gut with the story, for once. (As much as they could in a film that shouldn't exist, anyway.) It showed a bit of Davy's hatred, plus it showed a heroic side of Jack and revealed Will's destiny. Yeah, that doesn't sound that great. I still go by the first movie's ending as set in stone.  But for what they had made the movies into, it seemed to go along okay. Johnny's Fan wrote: And as for Sao Feng. *scoffs* He was also getting to be an interesting character. The only reason he died was so Elizabeth became a Pirate Lord.... therefore adding weight to her role, which up to now most people think was just a role. Nothing more to it. The love interest and that was it. In this film both she and Will had been given more importance to their characters (the end especially) and as many people say this is not right, as neither of them are really the heros of the films nor the star. Jack is. I didn't like Sao Feng's death, but I must differ in opinion with your other point. From the beginning I thought Will & Elizabetht to be just as main as Jack was in terms of character. Jack is really the antihero - out for himself, clever, and fun to watch - while Will is the loyal, self-sacrificing one who learns how to bend the rules. There's a great quote that says: "The main character is the one who changes." I don't always go by that, but in this case I think it's true. Will was always the one I rooted for. The movie starts with him and Elizabeth. It is set into motion by him and Elizabeth (the medallion), and its ultimate conclusion comes courtesy of...him especially, plus Elizabeth. (Getting Jack to iscape from hanging.) Sure, I know there is a big argument for Jack being the main character. And he is the one getting people to buy all the tickets, no doubt. But that's just the way I see things. Johnny's Fan wrote: @ Rin - Well actually....my brother is convinced that the scene where Jack gets traded for Will etc, there is a line that goes something like [directed at Jack] " do you think he'll get it right this time" - and he thinks (my brother) that all the double crossings etc, were pretty much planned by the group, or they knew what they wanted the outcome to be, and had to make things up as they go along. Now, I'm not sure about this. But my brother being the biggest movie geek I've ever come across, and someone who really "gets" film plots etc. He may well be right. Hmm...interesting theory. I don't think it's entirely true, but sometimes it might be. I like that idea. Johnny's Fan wrote: The Tia Dalma/Calypso thing was good, but I HATED the fact she grew into that giant person. It was like a 1950's B-movie or something. Very tacky. Having her going back to the sea was Ok, just not the giant thing. My brother reckons that for her part, even in DMC she was planning on having herself freed. To do this she needed the Pirates lords, so that's why she brought Babby back and it was her that first metnioned Jack would be rescued. Babby was also the one who knew who she really was, and he was also the one who mentioned that she should be freed. Interesting idea eh? Yeah, that makes sense. And I agree with the B-movie-ness. That was just sort of weird. Agg, that's all I can cover for now, there's probably a million other posts to catch up on. *edit* One more thing: Johnny's Fan wrote: [color=antiquewhite]
Again EMOTIONAL PUNCH written all over that scene. Pirates started off as a fun set of films.... this film took it waaay into the realms of seriousness. I want the characters that we started out with back again.
*applause* Thank you! I agree 100%. The sequels were sort of fun, sort of not, but the first movie would have been better left ALONE!!!! (I'm sure Disney agrees wholeheartedly as they sit counting their money.  ) _________________ <center> all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us
Thank you for five-plus wonderful years of obsession, friendship and fun
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 3:34 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 2156
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~RinielAranel~ wrote: Basically, there is a short clip of Elizabeth and her 10-ish son looking for Will on the horizon as he comes home. It's really sweet but sad. Thank you, Rin. How could I have missed that! 
I think Will's dying scene was well acted, but really, it was an "EMOTIONAL PUNCH". It got me teary, though. But that means nothing. I easily cry at movies. My sister thought he was dead for good, which, of course, made me laugh, which kind of destroys the purpose.
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 3:38 pm |
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Joined: 10 July 2005
Posts: 23149
Location: Where there are handsome heroes and sexy villains.. all that need some lovin' ;)
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Gender: Female
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****SPOILERS****
@ Aerandir - Ah, you don't like Elizabeth? Well I am not her biggest fan but then again, neither am I Will's biggest fan. Glad you liked it though.
@ TheThain - No indeed you are not. Both me and my brother were anticpating that.
Ok, well the clip at the end said "10 years later" and there was a young boy running across a grassy cliff and looking out at the sunset. Elizabeth comes up behind him and they are both looking out to sea. We then see their faces and a flash of green lights up their faces, and they both smile at each other and we see the Dutchman in the distance and then we zoom in to Will standing there on his ship.
@ Rin - Ack, it's nice to have people understanding me in this. I took Norrie's death so hard, it's great to come here and have people agree with my thoughts and add points of their own. Aye, I cam imagine ho it must have been for you in DMC.
Actually I said Bootstrap could have done it. Although I did wonder about Barbossa taking over Jones' part to begin with. The only good thing about that scene was that Jack did look genuinely shocked and even upset by what happened to Will and in a way, he did a noble thing by letting Will stab the heart, as that is what he really to do himself. And it does sort of add up with the "touch of destiny" that Tia Dalma kept going on about..... especially if she could sort of see that Will would be the one to stab the heart.
Ah, yes. I knew when I said that most would disagree. I was actually more quoting my brother then than me, mainly just to emphasise the fact, that I think in this film Elizabeth and Will were given, major serious turning points, as if to pull tongues at all the people who think their characters are two dimensional and are there purely for the love interest. If you see what I mean?
*whispers* Between you and me I don't think it's quite tru either. I just agreed to humour him. 
*bows* Thank you. I too would have been happy with just COTBP, all happy and jolly.... and satisfied. This film did not leave me satisfied. And although I am interested to know what will happen next.... I dread it as well.
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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 3:53 pm |
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Joined: 01 November 2005
Posts: 4785
Location: Middle Earth
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 Oh...no...I actually thought you said Barbossa.
*headdesk*
This is what seeing AWE at a late-night showing will get you.
Johnny's Fan wrote: Ah, yes. I knew when I said that most would disagree. I was actually more quoting my brother then than me, mainly just to emphasise the fact, that I think in this film Elizabeth and Will were given, major serious turning points, as if to pull tongues at all the people who think their characters are two dimensional and are there purely for the love interest. If you see what I mean? Ah, I see what you mean about the Elizabeth/Will thing. Quite frankly, I would be satisfied with them being there for love interest. They might not have had 'depth' in the first movie, but they seemed real enough to me. Both had destinct personalities, and part of that was being in love with each other. *whispers* Hehe. Don't worry, I won't tell. * Hehe...which reminds me, I LOVED Pintel's good-bye to Elizabeth at the end. "Goodbye, Poppet." (Anything that draws attention to the first film makes me quite happy) Johnny's Fan wrote: Ack, it's nice to have people understanding me in this. I took Norrie's death so hard, it's great to come here and have people agree with my thoughts and add points of their own. Aye, I cam imagine ho it must have been for you in DMC.
Aw, you're welcome.  I remember there was just one other person who agreed with me that first day - Padawan, I think it was - and everyone else just thought it was dandy. Ack, I'm glad most people are in agreement over the Norrie problem. It just wasn't right. _________________ <center> all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us
Thank you for five-plus wonderful years of obsession, friendship and fun
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 4:07 pm |
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Joined: 10 July 2005
Posts: 23149
Location: Where there are handsome heroes and sexy villains.. all that need some lovin' ;)
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 4:28 pm |
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Joined: 03 August 2006
Posts: 680
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omg! ok so i saw AWE last night....all i have to say is omg omg!!! in my opinion it was awesome!........but there is one thing i have to say
*spoiler ( kind of)*
i think the whole thing with tia dalma becoming a giant and turning into all the crabs....in my opinion that was just alittle over board on the special effects...i don't thing they really needed to have that...or atleast didn't need to go to that extream....
but thats my only neg. opinion......and omg the ending!! ahhh!!!
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 4:37 pm |
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Joined: 10 July 2005
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 4:38 pm |
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Joined: 04 June 2005
Posts: 4599
Location: Zeh Shire
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Wake up Ms.G wake up...he's not dead, he's not dead....he's not dead, its only a dream, only a dream...
You guys don't know how much that hurt, to see him die...like that. So unheroically, so.....ungloriously, and the fact that i sat there and bawled for 15 minutes while no one else cared. >.<
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 4:40 pm |
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Joined: 10 July 2005
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Ms.Gamgee wrote: Wake up Ms.G wake up...he's not dead, he's not dead....he's not dead, its only a dream, only a dream...
You guys don't know how much that hurt, to see him die...like that. So unheroically, so.....ungloriously, and the fact that i sat there and bawled for 15 minutes while no one else cared. >.< I'll find my post about what I thought about his death, and hopefully you can take some comfort in the fact that I feel the bloody same.
Here you go.Quote: Ok, first off I'm going to discuss what I didn't like about it. I was having a great time, I thought it was shaping up to be the best of the three.... and then they killed off my hubby. As you can probably imagine this did not please me one bit. The happy smile was wiped off my face, my arms no longer enjoying the cinema chair's armrest, were now folded and my position changed from the bolt upright to the slouched. Not to mention the curses I muttered under my breath.
Shall I tell you why I hated Norrington's death (apart from the fact it was Norrington)?
1. What was the point of his death? Was it to save someone? Did he sacrafice himself in the fight against evil? No. He was killed for no reason whatsoever. He had already ensured Elizabeth would be safe, so why did he not follow her? Why did he not jump overbaord and got with her and join the "right side"? And why was his death, possibly the most disturbing of all the deaths in Pirates?
2. As if to add salt into the wound he was killed by someone who later on was deemed almost a hero or a good person. Perhaps Norrington's death would have been easier if he had at least been killed A) for a reason or B) by someone who is really a villain, such as Jones. Having Bootsrap kill him for no reason, makes you wonder why they decided to have Norrington in the film at all. If all he was going to do was die at the hands of Will's dad.
3. Why was he forgotten? Elizabeth must have had some idea what happened to him and even if she didn't would Beckett not have missed a certain Admiral who was no longer around?
One of the worst things that can happen in a film is a character that you love ends up dying..... but it is even worse when said character is killed not by the vilain, but someone who has a happy ending, they are killed just so the death count in the film is higher and then they are completely forgotten about after they have shuffled off this mortal coil.
I think they way the writers, or whoever have treated his character should be ashamed of themselves. His death benifted no-one so why should he die in such a cold blooded way? Did the writers add him in the script only to discover many pages later they had forgotten to mention him again, so decided to kill off the character to save them actually having to write something decent about it?
James Norrington played an important part in the first two films, especially the second. He was a noble character and a good man. I think it's a great shame that such a character was written off for the sake of emotional impact and then not even remembered.
I would rather has not seen him in this film, if he was just a tool to add a bit if seriousness to the films.
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Post subject: Posted: May 25th, 2007, 4:43 pm |
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Joined: 30 March 2006
Posts: 5406
Location: Alabama, USA
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Alright, I've seen it. And I'm seeing it again tomorrow.
Now, I talk.
***SPOILERS***
I was so pleased with the end! I felt they wrapped the whole movie up so well and brought all the plotlines that needed closing shut, then opened up new ones! I was very pleased!
I don't think I can quite grasp William Turner being as fearsome as Jones, but I do love the whole idea to pieces.
The sadest part was when he died, James I mean. It was dreadful!
The funniest is debatable. I'm not sure if it was the squeaky guy's "Go to war" thing, or Jones's flappy beard.
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<center>“Envy consists in seeing things never in themselves, but only in their relations. If you desire glory, you may envy Napoleon, but Napoleon envied Caesar, Caesar envied Alexander, and Alexander, I daresay, envied Hercules, who never existed.”
at one point, I was alejandrah.
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