Alright, recently I've been watching LotR with my younger brothers (its their first time watchin) and one of my brothers seemed happy when Boromir died, and he wondered why I was sad. We started talking about it, and his view was Boromir had turned evil so his death was no big deal, while I found qualities in the character that I liked and was sad to see him die, despite his ring episodes. Anyway, it got me wonderin about what ya'll thought about all this. Was he a good guy with flaws, or was he simply an arrogant jerk?

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Wed Killian Jones (Captain Hook) 4/20/13

A good guy with flaws, most definitely. He was despairing because he saw his people dying and he was always under the shadow of Mordor. Every year he would have to fight to protect those that (apparently) didn't know or care.

And then he finds out that there actually was someone who could be the king, but refused to. That would irritate me to no end. People seem to think about how he doesn't really *want* Aragorn as king at the beginning, but no one really seems to think about the fact that Aragorn's great grandfather (or whatever) could have chosen to reclaim the kingdom and bring back to the time of its glory.

All in all, I'd say he had a lot of pressure on him, as (essentially) prince of the realm, and the Ring used that to try and gain power. Boromir is the simple humanity, flaws and all, that we all are. We need to sympathize with him, because he would be us and we would be him in other situations.

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going on a journey through my old claims

Yes! One person thinks the same way I do! He had his flaws, he had pressure from his father to bring aid to Gondor, and I think that's what opened him up to the power of the ring more than the others. It wasn't that he was arrogant or evil, or originally set out to take the ring for himself. Thats why I love the scenes they added into the later movies between him and Faramir, it showed the love he had for his family and for his homeland, and the desire he had to protect it. Thanks for replying!

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Wed Killian Jones (Captain Hook) 4/20/13

Nurr = Wisdom!

But since you asked about movie-Boromir I kind of understand why your younger brothers reacted that way when watching the movie. There isn't much time to get an in-depth knowledge of his character and to the situation in Gondor (the broken line of kings, the growing shadow in Mordor). I think it must be easy to dismiss Boromir as an unfortunate - and bad-ish - person. A first time audience doesn't get to know him other than the annoying guy at the Council who talks back at sexy Aragorn.. and then annoying guy with way-too-big-shield on Caradhras.. and then he tries to take the Ring from Frodo.. and then Ha, big ugly dude shoots him. I mean they might not think it was necessary to spell out the background story for a guy they were going to kill off before the end of the first movie anyway. Book-fans would know it anyway (and they weren't unfaithful to Tolkien) and the rest just got the amount of information they needed.

But as a good older brother you must force your siblings to read the book and learn to appreciate the full story!

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I think that he redeemed himself in the end for one. But he was a great warrior. The movie just made him look a little bad. During the scenes where he was teaching Merry and Pipping how to fight was his usual kind, generous self. He was also exceedingly kind to his brother. (how did he manage that?!? )

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"Where'd you go if I may ask?" said Thorin to Gandalf
"To look ahead" said he.
"What brought you back in the nick of time?"
"Looking behind"

Ea-I agree, if you just watch the movie you dont get to really see Boromir or get much of a change to truly get attached to him, it is possible that they didn't feel the need to invest a lot of time in him. It seems like they tried to squeeze the different aspects of the character into the short time we see him, but for first time watchers it doesnt give the full effect like the books do. And one of my brothers, the 12 year old, has been slowly working his was through the FotR book, but my other brother is only 9 and wouldn't be able to read the books yet. I'll probably start him out with something like The Hobbit, and probably do the same thing I do with Robin Hood stories, and tell him the story before bed. Anyway, totally agree with you.

Aragorn-fan-I loved the scene with Boromir teaching the hobbits how to fight, it was a nice moment where we got to see the real Boromir, plus I like it when the hobbits pull Aragorn's legs out from under him, that always makes me laugh. And I liked the scene between Boromir and Aragorn in Lothlorien, when he talks about Gondor.

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Wed Killian Jones (Captain Hook) 4/20/13

Hmm thinking about it.. I think perhaps what was difficult in selling Boromir as a character to a modern non-Tolkien savvy audience is that especially the values Boromir holds are chivalry, dignity, honour etc. Values that are more or less alien to modern society. We are familiar with them through a lot of epic movies and tv-series so we get the concept but I think it's hard for us to fully understand it and relate it to our everyday life. The other characters and their relationships represent values like friendship, loyalty, hope and it might be easier for modern people to relate to things like that.

But he is a very complex character - even in the book. I think Nurr is right in that we can all see a part of ourselves in Boromir.. but the reason why we might have problems relating to him is simply because we don't wan't to face those dark side and doubts, we fear to see our own demons. It's easier to relate to a strong, noble do-the-right-things-character because we mirror ourselves in them and want to believe that we would do the right things if it had been us.

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>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<



Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara

Thats a neat way of thinking of it, that didn't even occur to me!

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Wed Killian Jones (Captain Hook) 4/20/13

I was never very much into movie!Boromir, simply because he had so little screen time. I see him trough book!Boromir and I was sad when he died. He is for sure one of most misunderstood characters, he had his Ring moments but Ring also corrupted Frodo, so...

I first saw movie before I read the books but I never felt that Boromir got what he deserved while watching. Maybe if he was more often on screen, younger people would more attach to him and even like him.
But to be honest, I am afraid that kids see everything in black and white colors and simply put Boromir on Dark Side of the Force.

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Boromir had an ends justify the means attitude (saving Gondor even if it means getting in the way of the mission of the fellowship) towards the Ring- and that's what caused him to be tempted by it. It used his righteous desires- turned them, twisted them, corrupted them- until they were warped yet he thought he was only acting in the right. Frodo et al's goal was to rid the world of the evil threat of Sauron via the ring (which ultimately was threatening Boromir's land) and thus by extension saving Gondor- which Boromir wanted to save. His way of saving the ring- walking right into the enemy's lands and risking its loss and the fall of Gondor in order to save both all of Middle Earth- was an all or nothing type gamble.
Boromir's aim in taking the ring was saving Gondor immediately, regardless of the long-term consequences of using the ring. If taking the ring would save the White City from the threatening armies of Mordor, then certainly he'd do all in his power to take it, use it, and save his city. What happened after it was saved and the realm became corrupted was what the ring was deceptively causing him to ignore. That's where he's set in direct contrast to his brother Faramir, who understands that the ultimate goal is more important than the immediate need (and thus, in the book, is not tempted).

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Starting October 13th: globe trotting from my kitchen. Follow along on Cook In Fifty-Two

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Wow, very much in agreement there. His main goal was to save his homeland. Now, with that brought up about Boromir's goal vs. Frodo's goal involving the ring, here's a question to kick around. Do you think Boromir joined the fellowship simply to keep an eye on the ring, and try to eventually get it to Gondor rather than keep to the real purpose of the quest, or did he honestly join the fellowship to help? Personally, I like to think he joined honestly, although there could have been whispers in the back of his mind about taking the ring.

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Wed Killian Jones (Captain Hook) 4/20/13

I also like to think that he joined honestly, because I simply like him. But if we go deeper into it, its very probable that he had that in mind joining. I see him rather as honest and fair person but who knows? It could be fast thought: I will guide the ring but if Gondor can gain something, I can just keep an eye on it and when right moment appear, I will catch it.

Duh, in that moments I hate I am not able to say it right in English, what I have on my mind...

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Agreed. I like to think his heart was in the right place, for the most part. The ring did call to him durin the council but I don't think he was fully compelled by it yet, but I could be wrong since i want to believe he was good in the beginning. I say 'good' for lack of a better word, I think he was good throughout, he just had a bad ring centered idea. Which I think he realized after he tried to take the ring from Frodo before the orcs attacked them.

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Wed Killian Jones (Captain Hook) 4/20/13

I think Boromir was good, because after all, Frodo wanted to have the ring for himself too in the end.

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"If i were a knight of Rohan, i'd be capable of great deeds... but i'm not. I'm just a hobbit."-Merry

^ Good point, and we all know Frodo was good! lol! Even Gandalf was afraid to handle it, and of course Gandalf is good.

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Wed Killian Jones (Captain Hook) 4/20/13

Exactly. So, for my opinion, i think Boromir was good.

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"If i were a knight of Rohan, i'd be capable of great deeds... but i'm not. I'm just a hobbit."-Merry