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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: November 18th, 2011, 3:40 pm 
Movie Extra
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hello!
can you pleease help me?
i want to do a memorial tattoo with the phrase above:

i´ll guard my heart, seek faith, truth, love, happiness and freedom in all that i do for peace embraces me. Peace resides in me. I am in peace.

i wish you could help me to translate to elvish lettering, please?

thank you xoxo


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: November 24th, 2011, 12:01 am 
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Child of Hurin wrote:
Hey! I want to know what my name is in elvish. My name is Sindre. It's norse and means 'to spark". Can somebody help me? Thanks! :)


I also found the meaning 'send out sparks, sparkle', and on another website 'Sparkling, he who sends out sparks' -- it's not that I didn't believe you of course, but I was wondering about gender -- well, before I noticed that your gender is noted right in the thread. Anyway, the meanings might differ, but something related at least, and that I can recall right now without doing any more work...

... there is a Quenya tinta- 'cause to sparkle, kindle' so *Tintamo could probably do for a masculine name (pronounce the primary stress on the first syllable, tIntamo).


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 1:36 am 
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Hey guys im new to this whole thing, but i need some words translated into elvish
Love
Kylie
Jamie
Alyce

if any one can help that would be awesome!
oh and i also have a font thing i downloaded and was wondering do i write in english or elvish?! :confused2:


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 9:11 am 
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allymaree wrote:
Hey guys im new to this whole thing, but i need some words translated into elvish
Love
Kylie
Jamie
Alyce



Hello! Hmm, as you didn't say which Elvish language, I'll suggest Grey-elven meleth 'love' (a noun) without going deeper into its origins here.

The other words are names :) OK you knew that...

... but I'm not sure one needs to translate names -- I mean if you want to, that's fine of course, but you haven't provided what these names mean. You could transcribe them rather, meaning you simply write them using the writing that the Elves used.

Quote:
oh and i also have a font thing i downloaded and was wondering do i write in english or elvish?!



I'm not sure that having a font thing will necessarily be accurate, although I never used one myself. Anyway you have some choices here, you can...

A) write the English word love and these names (as they are) using the Elvish letters. Tolkien himself did this (in general I mean), and many people do this especially if translation into an Elvish language seems problematic.

B) write the Elvish word meleth using the Elvish letters -- and provide what these names mean if you really want translations, which can then also be written with the Elvish characters.

C) 'write' the Elvish word meleth using Roman letters, which I just did ;-)


Fonts are about (for example) size and style, but when writing Elvish there are various modes. For instance if you did chose the word meleth you could write it different ways, depending upon the mode -- and in different styles, depending upon the font. A style many people seem to like appears on the One Ring (which is the Black Speech written with Elvish characters). In any case, you need to narrow down what you want, just a bit; or I suppose you could simply request that someone make these choices for you.

I can't show you, myself, in this thread, the word meleth written in Elvish letters (if you like this word that is), but I bet I could find it somewhere on the interweb, as it has likely been a popular request over the years.


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 5:58 pm 
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Ah I found meleth, in two modes even, if the link works.


http://pic6.picturetrail.com/VOL164/135 ... 358231.jpg


And of course different fonts can change the look.


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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 2:38 am 
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Hi. I've been looking for a translation for my name, Rhonda, which translates to "Good Spear". The closets I've been able to figure is "Manech (Mahn-ehkh)" but Man is Quenya and Ech is Sindarin, so if anyone could help me out I would be much appreciative :)

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 3:45 am 
Rider of Rohan
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"Spear" is difficult because in Sindarin, the words generally have to do with the point of it, and could be terms for the points of any projectile, and often end up in names for mountains and towers! The term "ech" actually means "spine".

I prefer to work with Sindarin, so that's what language I'll use.

Some words to start out with:
aith - spearpoint
ecthel - spearpoint
thela - spearpopint

and "good"
maer - good, useful

There are several words for "good" but they don't have the "useful" connotation, so I'm choosing this one.

Maeraith /'maɛ.rajθ/ (This one sounds a little weird for me, having two very similar diphthongs in a row.)
Maerecthel /maɛ.'rɛk.θɛl̡/
Maerthel /'maɛr.θɛl̡/

Are those any good?

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 5:08 am 
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For name translations, there's a section on the main site which provides translations for a large number of names.

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 11:29 am 
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dreamingfifi wrote:
"Spear" is difficult because in Sindarin, the words generally have to do with the point of it, and could be terms for the points of any projectile, and often end up in names for mountains and towers! The term "ech" actually means "spine".

I prefer to work with Sindarin, so that's what language I'll use.

Some words to start out with:
aith - spearpoint
ecthel - spearpoint
thela - spearpopint

and "good"
maer - good, useful

There are several words for "good" but they don't have the "useful" connotation, so I'm choosing this one.

Maeraith /'maɛ.rajθ/ (This one sounds a little weird for me, having two very similar diphthongs in a row.)
Maerecthel /maɛ.'rɛk.θɛl̡/
Maerthel /'maɛr.θɛl̡/

Are those any good?



Thank you :) :) :) Yeas these are very helpful :)

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 2:09 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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As in Ecthel, Maerthel wouldn't have an A at the end. There are several feminine name suffixes (an A isn't one of them) in Sindarin. I'd suggest -il, -el, -eth, -iel, or -ien

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 2:19 pm 
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dreamingfifi wrote:
As in Ecthel, Maerthel wouldn't have an A at the end. There are several feminine name suffixes (an A isn't one of them) in Sindarin. I'd suggest -il, -el, -eth, -iel, or -ien


Ah thank you again. I was wondering why the A was left off (sorry I'm just starting to work with the elven languages)

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 3:02 pm 
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Anameleth wrote:
For name translations, there's a section on the main site which provides translations for a large number of names.

Don't use it. It's absolutely horrible. To quote it: (Bolding mine)
Quote:
Note: names are not 100% accurate. The purpose of this name list is to give you a close Elvish translation of your name, without being long, unpronouncable, or "non-Elvish-sounding". Changes to original name translation are noted where possible (in the form of "lit. '[literal translation]'"). A small number of English names are Elvish words themselves; translations for those Elvish words are given in the form of "tr. Elv.". For boys' names, I have added the masculine suffixes "ion", "ien", "ian", "dur", etc. to most of them. "Ion" can mean "Son of", but it is not used that way in this name list. I have not copied Ardalambion's name database at all, and have only used Council of Elrond's name database for the English translations of a few names (not the Elvish ones). Currently the submit-a-name form is down; it will be up again within several weeks.

-ian is a word meaning "wide expanse" and only used in the names of places. It's also only used in Sindarin names.
-ien is a feminine suffix, often used to mean "daughter of..." or to mark origin.
-ion does mean "son of", but it also means "a young boy or son", and it isn't a generic male suffix. A name like "Faelion" therefore has two translations: Son of Generous One, or Generous Son.
-dur is genderless, and means "servant, one who is devoted to..." It's only used in Quenya names.
She twisted all of these suffixes when there are perfectly useful masculine suffixes that she could have used instead:
-on generic masculine suffix.
-ron masculine doer. You find this suffix put on nouns to make the doer of the action related to the noun, like "Melethron" - "Male Lover".
(n)dîr means "man" (not human, but the gender) and can be used to mark the doer of the action or just to be described by the rest of the name, like "Meldir" - "male friend" and "Curunír" - "Male wizard, lit. Skillman"

And that's just in Sindarin, Quenya has a whole host more!
-o generic masculine suffix
-on generic masculine suffix
-no generic masculine suffix
-indo masculine doer
-mo masculine doer
-ro masculine doer
nér "man", the equal to Sindarin dîr.

And then there's the genderless suffixes too!
Sindarin:
-or doer of an action
pen "one, person"
NOTHING - no suffixes added, the name is genderless.
Quenya:
-r doer of an action
quen "one, person"
-wë "being"
-(n)dil "lover/friend of"
-(n)dur "servant/one who is devoted to"
and last but not least - NOTHING added means a genderless name.

Quote:
Note: names are not 100% accurate. The purpose of this name list is to give you a close Elvish translation of your name, without being long, unpronouncable, or "non-Elvish-sounding". Changes to original name translation are noted where possible (in the form of "lit. '[literal translation]'"). A small number of English names are Elvish words themselves; translations for those Elvish words are given in the form of "tr. Elv.". For girls' names, I have added the feminine suffixes "iel" and "wen" to most of them, making a translation of the name Adele (meaning Noble) "Arwen" (Noble Maiden). In some cases I have added meaningless letters to "Elvish-ize" the names, the most common being "dh" and "th" (Cuguwen [Dove Maiden] doesn't sound quite Elvish, but Cugedhiel does). I have not copied Ardalambion's name database at all, and have only used Council of Elrond's name database for the English translations of a few names (not the Elvish ones). Currently the submit-a-name form is down; it will be up again within several weeks.
She's missed a ton of feminine name suffixes too, and see how she admits to distorting willy-nilly Elven words because she thinks they aren't elvish enough?

-iel isn't just a feminine suffix. It's often used to mark patronyms, because it means "daughter or daughter of", same as -ion.
-wen isn't a suffix, it's a word. It means "maiden" or "unmarried woman". The full word is "gwend".
There are a lot more suffixes that she's missing.

Sindarin
-eth feminine name suffix
-il feminine name suffix
-el feminine name suffix
-ien another patronym name suffix, though also used to denote origins. Sometimes it's used just to denote femininity.
-ril female doer
sell "daughter, young girl"
(n)dess "woman"
(n)dîs "woman of marriageable age" -this one is often used as the opposite of dîr, as seen in "Meldis" - "female friend"

Quenya
-ë feminine suffix
-ië feminine suffix
-ien feminine suffix
-issë "Female Doer"
-indë "Female Doer"
-llë "Female Doer"
-më "Female Doer"
-rë "Female Doer"
wendë "Girl, Maiden"
níssë "Female, Woman"

The webmiss who put this together doesn't understand how the Elven languages work and willfully ignores or changes how they do - when it wasn't needed!

Also, note that she goes second hand for the meanings of the names, instead of doing research on her own. She should have left this to a linguist, because this is just a MESS.

Sorry for the rant, but the laziness of the "elvish" section of the main website drives me insane.

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 3:07 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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Maerthel wrote:
dreamingfifi wrote:
As in Ecthel, Maerthel wouldn't have an A at the end. There are several feminine name suffixes (an A isn't one of them) in Sindarin. I'd suggest -il, -el, -eth, -iel, or -ien


Ah thank you again. I was wondering why the A was left off (sorry I'm just starting to work with the elven languages)
No problem! I should have made that clearer.

The -thel of "ecthel" is from the word "thela", so we can guess that the -A drops off when put into a compound word.

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 3:21 pm 
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If you want to help with improving the elvish section, that soild be wonderful. I personally think Arweb did a great job with the elvish section, considering she's not a linguist and built that, and the rest of the website on her own when she was a teenager. But there's always room for improvement, and I'm sure you could a lot of great work there :)

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 4:06 pm 
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Don't be too hard on our webmiss. :) Remember, A-U is just fan-site doesn't have the huge teams of people working on it like TORN or CoE, and like Ana said, Arweb was just a teenager back then! It was certainly a step up from the "Translation Generators" that basically just gave you a randomized elvish name from the books. (Those always bugged me.)

However, we've opened things up very recently to let members contribute to the site, although things are kind of irregular and not systematic yet. But it would be fantastic to have a real linguist work on the elvish section! I would suggest starting a thread in the Revival section and maybe you can find a coder to volunteer to put up those suffix lists, for example, and revamp the name-translations lists :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: TRANSLATIONS -- All need for translations post here!
PostPosted: January 20th, 2012, 4:33 pm 
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I'm getting to work on that. I'm writing a thorough critique of the various sections. Alas, very little of "Arweb"'s word can be salvaged, because it was deeply flawed from the onset.

I know she isn't a linguist - it really shows. She shouldn't have dived into this when she didn't know what she was doing. Scrap that - after trying this, she should have been open to the criticisms that linguists sent to her. She knew she wasn't an expert, so when people pointed out the flaws - she should have fixed them or taken the sections down!

This website's Elvish section is worse than Grelvish because it has the mask of respectability while doing the same exact thing that the authors of Grelvish did.

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