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I have said many times in this thread that Arwen forsakes a mortal life for Love, She does it in the manner of choosing, she can choose to do so because of her lineage.
Once for all, please stop asking me to agree on something that I have said many, many times before!!! I remeber you saying that LOVE had nothing to do with the WHY she does to choose a mortal life so let us call it a day shall we.
I think we have come to an agreement here and also figured out a clash we were having. You I believe were saying that she does so by the action of choosing but I had my mind set on going much further and trying to dig up some answer as to how exactly she conducts that choosing.
I did not say that love has nothing to do with the WHY SHE DOES CHOOSE, rather it had nothing to do with the HOW. Though, she would never have thought to forsake immortal life in the first place had she not met Aragorn. Though... maybe she would have, seeing as how her brothers did as well.
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The elaborated answer to HOW (if the action of choosing is not enough and therefore the point of this thread), is not researchable, not explainable as Tolkien himself never approached the matter in any of his writings (or, they never have been published, still I would welcome anyone who has read it as being written straightfowardlt black on white).
I think we have finally come to agree on something eye to eye. True, Tolkien did not write anything about the way in which Arwen is no longer considered immortal. I don't think there is a black and white answer, and you too seem to agree.
My suggestion was that maybe all the high elves travel together and that is why I picked that quote by Elrond. And her turning away from the sea calling signifies her breaking free from that road by choosing to turn away from it.
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You are so convinced you guys that I mix my "HOWs" and "WHYs", whereas I quite know the meaning of each of them, thank you very much! Now, Please stop saying that I mix them up.
Well, to me and others, it does so appear that you have mixed up you whys and hows. Are points are pretty much the same I realize, but the way in which you state is not.
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If you wanted to give us a precious piece of information on why she looses her immortality you should have started by the obvious: LOVE!!!
Yes, this is why she forsakes immortal life in the first place; but not how. And this, to most lotr fans should be common knowledge that's why I thought it no point in discussing it because it does not have much to do with how she initally is no longer immortal.
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Slight difference here though: When I answer HOW (a primary and simple answer), I say that she CHOOSES simply because I know that the answer is not researchable as it has never been given by the man, Tolkien himself. This is precisely why I went onto the next level which was establishing that her lineage allows her to do so. As I knew that we could not provide a palpable answer to Elia on the technicalities of the HOW, I went onto the lineage subject because that was at least one piece of information that Tolkien had given us and therefore that we could give to Elia as a subsidiary answer in the meantime.
Now I see what you are getting at. But I think we crossed roads when I was trying to find the root of how, and not her lineage because that was not the answer to how. But seeing as how there is no exact answer to how she forskaes it (I gave my suggestions), I can see why you'd bring up the lineage so you could at least provide some base for Elia to work off of. Though, I wanted to go deeper. That's were we collided.
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I do say that the primary fact of as well as answer to the HOW is that she chooses. I do consider that is where we should start from when trying to answer HOW. Then I would agree with you that we could say that the full answer to HOW (i.e. she chooses her immortal life by praying the Valars within a ceremonial context) can only be suggested. In that case I shall leave you to it as you seem to be willing to scrutinise and analyse the words of Tolkien for that matter (this not criticism, just an observation).
I think this about sums it up.
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If you are less then 16 then I will say "Hats down"! You are smart and resourceful for your age! Not many teenagers come with the will to read, analyse and think nowadays (oh... Did I sound like an old owl?).
I'm sixteen actually. I turned 16 on Jan. 24th. And, lol!, no you didn't.
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I also like your banners, carry on the good work (Which program are you using by the way? I do a lot of Photoshop montage and photo editing as a designer). At the end of the day, if you are in the US, you are still considered a minor until you reach 21, is that right? Make the most of it then... In Europe, you are considered responsible for your actions and words when you reach 16. That is why sometimes cultural clashes happen between the old continent and the mighty U.S of America. It is also why I did not consider at first that you could be too young to handle my harsh way to put things across. Still, I believe that we got slightly on each other's nerves at some point. I hope that we are all settled now. (I still believe that your friend's sister is a one off!).
I use Photoshop 7, though I had a trial of CS2 a while back. You?
No, I think it is 18 that one is no longer considered a minor.
True, we did get on each others nerves a tad too much.
lol
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My view is that Fantasy is not an exact science and should be left with touches of unexplained phenomenon just like HOW Arwen.......(we all know the rest).
I agree. But I have a nasty habit of wanting to know as much as I can about what I show an interest in.
