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PostPosted: June 6th, 2006, 10:10 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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Ah, Rita does what's best for Rita and she was reporting at all the trials, maybe she was playing both sides?

Edited: Actually, a friend of mine has a really interesting idea that Harry wasn't under the Fidelius at all because think about it:

The whole switcheroo with Peter seems to be a surprise with everyone, but Rowling has already established that even if a secret keeper dies or those involved die, the secret is kept. If that's so, then Peter would have had to tell both Sirius and Hagrid the location of Godric's Hollow in order for them to be there that night...unless Harry wasn't under the spell and then, of course they would see him.


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PostPosted: June 6th, 2006, 11:20 pm 
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Larael wrote:
Haldir o Lórien wrote:
... why would Rita Skeeter be involved with the Potters' deaths?


Good question Haldir. :) I've taken some time to think about that and the only conclusion I could come up with was that she might have been in Godric's Hollow that night reporting on an "important" news story. She might have been writing up a draft when she heard the Potter's house crumble, and she might have decided to check it out to see if it made a good news story.

I know it's kind of lame, but there could be something to it. Or, it could just be nothing.


oh right .. i forgot .. shes an animangus ... a beetle

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PostPosted: June 7th, 2006, 11:58 am 
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Ericadawn wrote:
Ah, Rita does what's best for Rita and she was reporting at all the trials, maybe she was playing both sides?

Edited: Actually, a friend of mine has a really interesting idea that Harry wasn't under the Fidelius at all because think about it:

The whole switcheroo with Peter seems to be a surprise with everyone, but Rowling has already established that even if a secret keeper dies or those involved die, the secret is kept. If that's so, then Peter would have had to tell both Sirius and Hagrid the location of Godric's Hollow in order for them to be there that night...unless Harry wasn't under the spell and then, of course they would see him.


That would make complete sense, but why would Harry not be under the Fidelius spell if both his paren'ts were?

I've heard loads about the Fidelius spell, but I can't seem to remember reading about it for the life of me. What exactly is it? Does it make people invisible or what?


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2006, 12:09 pm 
Rider of Rohan
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From Rowling's site:

Quote:
Just in case you have forgotten exactly how the Fidelius Charm works, it is

"an immensely complex spell involving the magical concealment of a secret inside a single, living soul. The information is hidden inside the chosen person, or Secret-Keeper, and is henceforth impossible to find -- unless, of course, the Secret-Keeper chooses to divulge it" (Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban)

In other words, a secret (eg, the location of a family in hiding, like the Potters) is enchanted so that it is protected by a single Keeper (in our example, Peter Pettigrew, a.k.a. Wormtail). Thenceforth nobody else – not even the subjects of the secret themselves – can divulge the secret. Even if one of the Potters had been captured, force fed Veritaserum or placed under the Imperius Curse, they would not have been able to give away the whereabouts of the other two. The only people who ever knew their precise location were those whom Wormtail had told directly, but none of them would have been able to pass on the information.


I'm guessing Harry wasn't put under it either as a back-up precaution in case something went wrong or it was an idea of Peter's to make Voldemort's job easier since Harry was who he really wanted.


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2006, 1:52 pm 


Oh, I never thought about how Hagrid knew where they were, but didn't Dumbledore tell him?

It's an interesting idea, I wouldn't be surprised if Snape was involved in the Potter's deaths, he always surprises me, I still haven't made up my mind on whether I think he's evil or not. Whe I first read the book I was like "How could you Snape, I thought you were good!" But after going on www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com it had sooo much convincing evidence that I think there is definately more to Snape killing Dumbledore than meets the eye.

I don't know about Rita, but JK never fails to surprise us! :goofy:


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2006, 6:18 pm 
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Personally, I think Dumbledore's death was actually planned by himself, and shared with Snape.


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2006, 7:20 pm 
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^could be possible ... but its still really missing a lot that we werent ever told yet...

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PostPosted: June 7th, 2006, 9:25 pm 
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But then how did Dumbledore know?

And he wouldn't have been able to tell Hagrid because only the Secret Keeper could, like Albus being the only one who could tell Harry where to find the Order of the Phoenix headquarters albeit on paper.

I'm a firm believer of the Snape/Judas parallel which my mom pointed out last July on the same night I finished it and couldn't believe what Snape had apparently done.


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2006, 10:27 pm 
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The Snape/Judas parallel is an interesting, and the facts do go together, but I still don't believe Snape is evil.

I don't know how many times I've posted this theory, but I guess I'll do it again because it's what I firmly believe.

For one, Dumbledore didn't know that Snape was going to kill him, but he had an idea that of what Draco was up to, and figured that Draco would try. Everyone [including Dumbledore and Snape] know that Draco acts macho but when it comes to killing he wouldn't have the heart or the guts to actually do it. Because of this fact Dumbledore asked Snape to do it, and he refused which was why the two were arguing in Chapter 19 [Elf Tails], page 403. It's not like Dumbledore wanted to die, it's just that if he wasn't killed Draco would die because of the Unbreakable Vow, and I don't think Dumbledore would want any of his student's to die no matter how evil they are.

In the end Snape had to pretend to be a Death Eater to keep his cover. So, when it was obvious that Draco would not kill Dumbledore Snape took it into his own hands. When Dumbledore says "Please Severus," he makes sound like he is pleading for his life. But, have we ever known Dumbledore to plead, does he seem like the kind of person who would do that, or would be afraid of death? I take those words ["Please Severus"] to mean that Dumbledore wants Snape to get it over with for the both of them, and to kind of assure Snape that this must be done.

Of course Snape fled afterwards so that he wouldn't blow his cover, and be punished by Voldy. Plus, Harry might've just killed him if he hung around to long.

Also, the reason Hagrid knew about part of the deal was because he was the one that heard Snape and Dumbledore arguing outside his cabin.

So there's my theory, I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm just giving out facts.


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2006, 10:37 pm 
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Oh, you misunderstand me about the Judas parallel. Let me try and explain...

Snape is not evil!



Snape is "Dumbledore's man through and through."



Dumbledore told him to spy on Voldemort and all DEs and may have told him to do whatever was necessary to keep that cover, including agreeing to the Unbreakable Vow.
Snape did not want to keep up his vow, did not want to kill Albus. Once it became apparent that Malfoy would not succeed, Snape was overheard telling Albus that he didn't want to do it anymore and Albus reminded him of what he had agreed to.



This should sound familiar. It's exactly what Albus made Harry agree to;
"You swore, did you not, to follow any command I gave you?"
and later
"Your word, Harry."
"I-all right, but-"



Like Snape, Harry wanted to back out, but Albus would not allow it. Like Harry, I think Albus thought Snape far more valuable to the cause than to let him die because of the Unbreakable Vow. It would also allow Snape greater access to Voldemort and easier access to help Harry once the time comes because Albus trusts that Snape WILL HELP Harry defeat Voldemort.



Please don't misunderstand:
For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.
"Severus...please..."
He was not begging for his life to be saved, he was pleading for Snape to keep his "word" and Snape does.

It was my mom, just a few hours after finishing the book that called Dumbledore Jesus and Snape Judas.

I know most hate Judas with a fiery passion, but that’s not how I was raised. Jesus had to die. It was his fate. It was what he had been born to do. Unfortunately, someone had to betray Jesus in order for Jesus to die and that happened to be Judas so I raised to feel pity for Judas.

What takes more strength? Love with conditions or the type of love where you follow his teachings no matter what even if he says that you have to betray him?

Still not convinced?



The "revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face" is directed at himself! The only other point when it is mentioned is when Harry is using Snape's spells against Snape, reminding Snape of his past evil deeds.



There's a reason "DON'T CALL ME COWARD!" is split up. It's so you won't miss that Snape is described "as though he was in as much pain as the yelping, howling dog stuck in the burning house behind them."
The last time that someone was described as hurting that much was when Lupin was described as "It sounded as though every word was causing him pain" when Sirius died.
Neither Harry nor any of the Order was able to attack Snape so why would he be in that much pain?

Shouldn’t Harry be able to “detect a look of triumph on the features he loathed so much,” like in chapter eight, if Snape has succeed in what he wanted by killing the only one his Dark Lord has ever feared?



UNLESS he just killed the man who had meant the most to him, the closest he had ever come to a father figure that he respected, that he loved enough that he'd do anything for...anything.



Snape even protected Harry from the other DEs as Harry tried to kill him and that last spell to distract Harry was the only spell Snape used that touched him.

So, your theory does correspond in parts with mine...


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PostPosted: June 8th, 2006, 10:56 am 
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*smacks forehead* I think I got a bit confused with what you meant to say when you mentioned the Judas/Snape theory, because I have been raised to hate Judas for turning our Lord in to be killed. But, what you said makes complete sense, you just have to look at from a different angle.

We pretty much have the same theories then. This is good! :) Bottom line is that we both think Snape is good. :)


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PostPosted: June 8th, 2006, 12:34 pm 
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Larael wrote:
Bottom line is that we both think Snape is good. :)


Which is why I'm a bit worried about Severus, Rowling has all but admitted that Severus' role in the series is a redemptive one and the ultimate redemption would be to sacrifice himself for Harry's sake.

And I would really hate that on a lot of levels because it would be like Sirius' death, Severus never really got to live.


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PostPosted: June 8th, 2006, 4:09 pm 
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Oh my goodness, you have no idea how alike we think!

Of course we all know that someone is going to die in the last book [beside's Voldy], JKR has even mentioned something about it. Not about who it's going to be, but she just confirmed that it would have to happen.

When asked who I think would die in the HP7, I replied off the top of my head that it would be [or even had to be] Severus. I could just seen JKR getting Snape killed off while he was saving Harry's life or something. It's just something that she would do.

Even for all the mean things Snape has done killing him off would definitely impact me greatly. As you said, Severus really didn't have a chance at life.

But, I have this awful feeling that he is going to die, I can't think of anyone else, except maybe Pettigrew. But knowing JKR he'll probably stay alive till the end and get thrown in Azkaban.


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PostPosted: June 8th, 2006, 7:43 pm 
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What do you think about Harry?
Which of the hero journey endings do you think he will have?
For several years now, I've leaned toward Harry dying in the end, but now I'm not so sure anymore.


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PostPosted: June 8th, 2006, 9:34 pm 
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I too thought about the possibility of Harry dying in the end, and for a while I thought it would be the only way for the book to end.

Then I had some doubts, and now I don't think he'll die. It just wouldn't be right. I also don't believe that Harry will just get married and settle down somewhere, it wouldn't be like him. I have a feeling he will become an Auror because that's where the action is. I really hope he and Ginny get back together too.


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PostPosted: June 8th, 2006, 9:41 pm 
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Yeah, I'm starting to like Harry and Ginny.

At first, I didn't care for it much and hoped it wouldn't come to pass because it seemed too easy, too trite and Ginny had appeared to have moved on.


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