i think the Mods do a really good job, they have to cpe with all of us and goodness knoew we don't make it eaiser. Sometimes a Mod dose someting a disagree with but you expect that. Recently (last year) i had a small private vendetta against one Mod (no names) however afatre waching her every movement, for a few months i decidde she was ok. Now i love her and would marry her becuse she has done the greatest thing a Mod could possible do in my opinion (saved the NC from deleation) so all in all the Mods are a good bunch, and if a mod is out of control then i'm pretty sure they wouldn't be a mod for very long.

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Made by Lembas

The thing about PMing, though, is that you can only talk to one person. And if you want to start a new topic for a random discussion, wouldn't that just create more and more new threads that would clog the forum? And what if you want to just let the conversation 'drift', and not have to stay on the same topic the whole time. The only thing I'm confused is, can we still have completely random discussions in threads such as the Welcoming Team or in the Club threads, where we still talk about the main topic, but we also talk about how everyone's doing, and things that are happening in our lives. Just like a little place for our group of friends to talk. Because I for one, love going to the WT thread and just catching up with my fellow members. If from now on I can only talk about welcoming, I feel like it's harder to 'keep in touch' and get to know people. I might be completely mistaken, though, and you could just be talking about threads about, say, the Eragon movie, that turned into discussions on what everyone's doing this weekend. (I have no idea if that happened, I just made up an example) I just don't want 'chat' areas to be taken away, but I completely understand if you want to get the threads that really have a subject on topic

I hope I made sense to everyone! And I think you Mods are doing a great job Don't think that you're not

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Exactly what we intend Gilraen! We don't plan on cracking down on clubs that are for example,...the guys and girls clubs that have many topics, as long as they are reasonable posts (again more than one word or a smilie is what I mean) or that the Fan clubs still have posts that are a majority about the actor in question. However, on threads meant to be about the books or movies...we cannot have discussions about "what everyone's doing this weekend" or like I found ...people going on about which computer is better, Mac or PC? (In the middle of a RotK discussion) Those are the type of off topic posts that we discourage, not the welcoming thread conversations or clubs and various other more random areas. Hope that helps!

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[~+@&#=^?]

..back again, picking myself up, dusting off..and facing life..

Thanks so much for clearing that up! I'm glad we can still 'chat freely' in the WT then

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I have just been reading these discussions and I have only one thing to say. Respect the Mods and Arwen. They have worked hard about creating this website. I know that there have been off-topic chats and I hav promised mods that I would also help keep this down. That is our job as members. We must volunteer ourselves to looking in the forums we post and make sure it is not off topic. That will not only stop these unnessesary posts, but give the mods a little break.

"Smile because today's a brand new day"

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Annoying-Amount-of-Smileys Nazgul
Co-Force of Evil Posting

^ I agree. I really feel sorry for the poor Mods. I think they're only trying to make things a lot safer and still fun. To all the Mods: you're doing a great job, in my opinion. Keep it up!

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Thinking of new sig set...

Just what tin said! Remember, there are threads where we can have completely random discussions--threads with no EXACT designated topic. There are clubs for it (though I find them hard to navigate through and find where to hang out) all over the clubs forum, your day threads, and even a Randomness section for posting just about anything.
I've found it harder to get to know people for a while, since a few things happened:
1) the forum boomed and lots of new people joined, expanding our small community into a not-so-small community, both in number and members and areas those members can hang out in. More on that later.
2) we ALL--including myself--started having fun changing names. Naw, I'm not saying to stop. It's too much fun to stop! Just that when many of us choose to change our names very often it can get confuzzeling at times and if we're not yet close friends, we wonder if we know this person 'cause it says they've been here a while but we haven't seen their name and their style is familiar, so who was this... Hey, even I've freaked Arwen out once by just ADDING a name onto the front of mine. I added the translation of my fn, Eruve, and posted in the calendar on the mod forum (it's cool--just a tool if we want to party on MSN or something) she saw the Eruve and wondered who let a new mod in without her designating that person.
3) Have any of you looked at our old forum recently? there are many fewer sections. This means that the number of topics to choose from has expanded like a balloon when you hold it under your hose and turn the water on, filling it up! That means more places to hang out in 8) more chances of creating new topics. Just look at our club section. Wow! It's so loaded with a diversity of clubs that personally I find it confusing to navigate. I'll go in there saying, "okay, I'm a member of this and that and that club, which one should I hang out in today" and find myself overwhelmed in that section.
What I'm trying to say here is, we're all more spread out here--and look, we're even weighing creating more sub-forums with the Hobbit thingy--and I don't know about you, but when I'm in a city with lots of activities ,instead of going to a small (population 500-1000) city park where everyone hangs out either in the pool, the walking trail, the exercise equipment, the pond, the playground equipment, the picnic tables, I just don't have the same feeling. Maybe that's why some of the large forum have those realm thingys that we never had (?)

4) Okay, so the rules. Basically, what's happened is that sometimes a naughty person joins and does something really wrong in the site. Let's say they flood the boards with one-or-two-word posts. "HI" is post one "Yeah thanks" is post two. "I agree" is post three. Let's say it happens multiple times over the past 6 months (which is true). Then let's say that something never seen at the old forum, in which time the chatroom, forum people weren't quite so separate and the chatroom was used for chatting while the forum for discussing, creeps in. This is in the middle of a RPG "I really gotta go" "Aww why" "to see superman!" "ooh cool! when will you be back?" "Same time tomorrow" "Okay, see ya. Bye" "Bye" Rather like a chatroom. Anyway, the mods kept seeing things like this pop up around the place. It was more of an understood thing or something they never faced in the old days, when to chat like that we'd all head over to the chatroom or tagboard or something. SOOOOO when PM'd etc the people would say "what's wrong with you? where do the rules say that? We're just talking" which is true, but it wasn't how Arwen designed the forum, it was how the chatroom/tagboard was designed. Basically mods got tired of hearing that, and presented this to the webmaster, Arwen or Arweb as some call her (get it, Arweb= ARwen the WEBmaster?). Everyone agreed the rules needed clarification, and eventually the write-out grew so long for fear that it wouldn't BE clear, that they all just posted a "New" rule instead of an addendum.
5) Theeeen the porno folks joined. Joined and joined and joined. Mods started going through member lists EVERY singing TIME we got ONLINE just to make sure anyone with a Casino add or a porno link got deleted before they posted. Sometimes the sicko managed to post before being deleted. It. Was. Stressful.
6) In addition to porno things, some newer members started posting very, very sexy Provocative pictures of themselves or others or drawings. Now, maybe some of you don't know this, but when the site was started, our beloved webmaster was much younger. She and several mods were in their early teens. Some mods were not even teenagers! Unlike the other Lord of the Rings hangouts online, this was developed to be a place where fans of any age whether old or young could hang out. Esp. the young, since it's hard to find a LotR website clean enough where parents say, okay it's safe for you to join. That's been one of the driving factors behind the rules in this forum, and hasn't really changed as the originals (Arwen, Arsa, Ala, Mire, etc) have grown older. That is why mods nowadays are CONSTANTLY saying "Keep things PG!" "Keep it family-friendly"

I think the mod team might have made the "new" rules sound too new in how they were written. Rather than simply stating, this is how things used to be, we're having trouble, so this is also what's meant. I think how they were stated sounded stifling, and maybe those of us on the mod team could re-examine how they are worded, etc. By content-less posts the mod team just means having random discussions in threads intended to be SPECIFIC. Not EVERYWHERE. By one or two words, the mod team was trying to get CONVERSATION and discussion going again.

As for lording it, yeah, well, I think it's not so much trying to lord is as at times feeling exasperated and trying to finally say something after it's been explained a few times before in a way that even the youngest person could understand. That's just what I think. Maybe the mod team *looks at the members of the mod team* could examine how these rules are worded/presented again and see if there's a way to make them less---intimidating?

Locking threads, maybe some are closed early, but that's when a mod thinks it's heading for an explosion. One things mods are supposed to do is stop any conflict and prevent it if possible. Probably more explanation should be given. You'll notice that it depends entirely on the mod whether the message simply says "Locking this thread now" or there's a long post. That's because we do not have any set guidelines for how to deal with that. Maybe we should hash that out and make sure all of the mod team is on the same page when threads are locked and a full explanation is posted.

Oh, something I've been wondering is: would everyone feel more comfortable if when rules were broken it was sent via PM rather than posted, and if it was through the mod account instead of individual mods? "Cause that account is used by ALL moderators. Usually I've made it my policy to PM rather than post a rule reminder, though I must admit last week when I posted in that one Non-LotR RPG about making sure the romancing didn't go too far, I didn't follow that self-induced policy. Some just post the reminders for all to see. What would everyone feel more comfortable with?

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Starting October 13th: globe trotting from my kitchen. Follow along on Cook In Fifty-Two

Ivreniel, thank you for taking the time to write and post this. You explain a lot of your own opinions well, but also what is general for the mod team.

Allow me to share a few thoughts and comments.
Moderators are simply members who agreed to take on a bit more responsability!
Yes, there are moderators who might have been too quick to end a discussion or close a thread in my opinion, but there have also been members who got away with way too many one-word or irrelevant posts, again according to my personal opinion. And this is no surprise since we are all individual, both the members and the mod team. However, seeing how almost every single move from the staff will be weighed among the members, I believe there are two very important things to be aware of; Communication and Information!

Ivreniel already touches on the (perhaps missing?) policy about locking threads. Usually the thread is locked because there is already an existing thread on the topic, but I think it can be a confusing experience for new (and old) members to find their way around the boards and even more to check thoroughly if there is a thread on the topic they want to discuss. Locking a thread may seem very drastic and I think everyone appreciates an explanation as to why a thread is locked, even if it's just a short message saying there's already a similar thread. Sometimes repeating a message or stating the obvious helps with the communication, when we have so many members and some might only come by occasionally and may have a hard time keeping up with things that seems obvious to the regulars.

Concerning the forum rules; when communicating general rules to a big forum they need to come in one-liners because most don't bother to read them anyway! But they also need to be written out in detail and elaborated so everyone can go there for referance. And of course it's important to put the rules down so they will be easy to read and understand to everyone.
I agree that it might be a good idea to take a look at the rules again on the mod board so everyone agrees on how to deal with them - if you haven't done it already!

Rule-breaking: Most people don't break the rules on purpose, but I guess we can all get carried away, so a general reminder in a given thread is fine. However, if a member repeatedly does something wrong (perhaps without knowing) it may be more courteous to give a friendly reminder or a warning on PM. I think it depends on the situation.

Well, in conclusion, as I already mentioned communication and information should be key words. Communication with members through announcements, and information on what is going on, like open threads where the staff answer questions, especially on issues where regular members might feel insecure or powerless (fx. issues about post counts, deletion of posts, and behind-the-scenes actions).

Well, thank you again Ivreniel for posting this. Nice explanations and ideas!

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Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara

I personally don't really have many problems with the way A-U is going; it is still the great place it was when I joined.

My only peeve is the huge amounts of new members who post this like this: "ya i like todo tht cuz whe n. i wuz yung i ate eggz! LOL" not that I don't mind new members or the occasional typo, it's just that it seems as though our community is a little more, uh, sophisticated than that.

What I love about A-U:

Arwen and the other mods don't float around waiting for someone to slip so they can pop up and scream "GOT YA!" and give them a slap on the wrists, they are active posters and nice people. I have never felt like I have to tiptoe around them or censor what I'm posting, the rules they enforce are perfectly reasonable, and they keep the conversations civil.

The rules about staying on topic, while sometimes annoying, are fairly lax. I was a member of a LWW forum that BANNED fan clubs because they didn't have "intelligent, on-topic conversations." Straying off-topic was a punishable offence.

I have NEVER run into objectionable content while surfing the boards. I'd like it to stay that way, and if enforcing the rules a little more does that, I'm more that willing to obey.

I totally agree about some of the newbies typing like that I just feel that when people type like that, they aren't really serious, you know? I also agree wtih the reasons you like AU. I've been on a forum or two that don't seem to have any restrictions at all, and so I find AU refreshing

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i understand all that the facts, which I think all should understand. The mods and admin are real people, they have tasks that we as members cannot comprehend! I myself. as a forum admin, understand the dauting troubles of 'bad posts'. just remember that even mods may screw up from time and again! Thank you mods for being who you are. For me and this website, you are a huge asset!

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Annoying-Amount-of-Smileys Nazgul
Co-Force of Evil Posting

I totally agree about some of the newbies typing like that I just feel that when people type like that, they aren't really serious, you know? [/quote]
Exactly. As it has been said, that talk is really for chat rooms, where you have to type quickly to keep up with the conversation, here, you have all the time in the world... 8)

There are a lot of good thoughts here, whether I agree with them or not. I have to admit that as I went through, my hackles started rising, at what felt like unfair and inconsiderate accusations- we can't stress enough that we are, contrary to popular belief, just like you, and we get overwhelmed, too. I think it's perfectly reasonable, however, for you to ask us to give more explanation when we close threads, post new rules, etc. And I think we can try to bring that in to our guidelines (yes, the mods have rules, too).

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I am a Shieldmaiden for Christ!

I was Nienor before Nienor was cool. *nods coolly*
Kudos to Kitoky for the fabulous signature set, and art credit to engelszorn.
Who wants to join me in bringing back the lady?

Glad to hear everything's calmed down a bit
For future reference, though, I'm gonna post a link for comparison: http://forums.keeptothecode.com/index.php
As much as this forum does have its flaws (everything and everyone does ), I assure you Keep To The Code can match and at least double every single one of them, and then some. I stay on the site because it's an excellent place for spoilers and is also my main way of contacting Ted Elliott, but everyone there agrees that everything is too rigid. There, you get one warning at best before they lock a thread, which they will do if they feel that it in any way is not currently on the topic that the title suggests (i.e.- if we started talking about the motivations of various individuals and ended up talking about only Jack's motivations for a page, they'd probably lock it because we weren't talking about everyone). Mods go in and edit peoples' posts without warning if they at all think they might conflict with the TOU (and I'm not talking about major swearing or something; I mean something as trivial as quoting more than one individual in the post), but they frown upon us editing our own posts and have a very regimented pattern that we must follow if we do. All in all, the power's gone to the admin's head.
So...yeah. I still love this place, and if we can only come up with three flaws, that's good enough for me.

Oh, and on KTTC, there is no "Suggestions and Comments" area. If you have a problem, you may pm it to the main admin account, only to receive a reply a month later (because they can't be bothered to read it before then, apparently) essentially telling you "good idea, but....no." No reasons, no explanations. Just no. Every time. So in that area, I must say that A-U beats it by far.

As I see it everybody who posted after Ivreniel agrees more or less that things are going well on A-U. This is an old thread which was opened in the heat of another discussion that mostly has settled or died out by now. When replying to Ivreniel's post I didn't even read through the old posts of this thread so my post should be seen only in relation to her. So I'm not sure whether you are referring to my post when mentioning the "unfair and inconsiderate accusations". My intention was the opposite. In general I support the views presented by Ivreniel, and I was happy she posted them. Like what has been mentioned here and elsewhere, I think the forum is running smooth and well in general - thanks to the admin and staff.

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>>Be the change you wish to see in the world<<



Banner credit: Shadowcat & Nurrantiel Mashiara

The way i see it is:

They're only trying to do the jobs allocated to them - even if sometimes it is annoying, over all they're trying to make it a better place for us all.

Also, i think members lead by mods' examples, so that will make us all better people, right?

However, i have noticed some members feel as if they have the mod given powers to tell other members what to do, or to say, which annoys me sometimes.

Still some valid points tho Ellie, i just don't feel the same way

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