That's right, neither Jack nor Barbossa is wearing Chinese clothing, are they? *Has a thought* Ohhh, I wonder if all these rumors that Elizabeth spends some time on Sao Feng's ship have something to do with it?

_________________

^ Actually... Jack is wearing Oriental-style outfits for the third movie:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/R ... C3Jack.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/R ... 3Jack2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/R ... 3Jack3.jpg

_________________


.*+I'VE MET ANTIGONE, MONTANABOHEMIAN, RAIVYNN PHOENIX, BERIADANWEN & PIRATEOFTHERINGS+*.

(¯`•¸·´¯`·._.·[TRUE VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE]·._.·´¯`·¸•´¯)

Wow, I've never seen that before. It's not the photoshopped one, right? That everyone thought was Jack but that turned out to be some guy (I know the name...except I forgot it) who designed a Jack Sparrow oriental costume and photoshopped Johnny's face into it?

I still wonder if Elizabeth acquired her Oriental clothing aboard Sao Feng's ship, though!

_________________

Nope they're not photoshopped! I found them on some movie news site along with the photo of Jack, Elizabeth and Bootstrap that was already posted here in this thread!

_________________


.*+I'VE MET ANTIGONE, MONTANABOHEMIAN, RAIVYNN PHOENIX, BERIADANWEN & PIRATEOFTHERINGS+*.

(¯`•¸·´¯`·._.·[TRUE VAMPIRES DON'T SPARKLE]·._.·´¯`·¸•´¯)

_________________




^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

I know...I was quoting Mr. Brown ("Just doing my civic duty, sir"), then adding in "ma'am" to make it applicable


Y'know, I think a lot of people really underestimate Will's character. The general opinion of him seems to be this sweet, innocent, quiet young man, but he's not at all. Even throughout CotBP, we see just how passionate he can be ("My father was not a pirate!" "You threatened Miss Swann." "That's not good enough!" "It was my blood...my father's blood...the blood of a pirate."). Actually, I'd go so far as to say that Will is quite possibly the most emotional of any of the main characters. He's the first character to seemingly take a life (technically he didn't "kill" Jacoby, as the pirate was immortal, but he had every intention of doing so). On several occasions, he has random outburts of rage or frustration. He may be hidden underneath the stifling layers of propriety and duty, but in reality, William Turner is a pretty dark character. If he was a villain (or at least an antagonist of some sorts as he is in parts of AWE), people would say "Wow, he's got a lot of emotion and passion buried down in there. Wouldn't want to cross him." But, for now, he's on the "right" side, and thus far all of his goals have coincided with what the audience thinks should be a priority, so everyone dismisses it and goes back to focusing on how heroic and brave he is (just like no one thought twice about Jack's sneaky ways in CotBP when he was the "good guy" or Elizabeth's dumping of James because it put her with the "hero"). In AWE, however, Will's goals become quite different. He no longer has to save Elizabeth, and he's seen that she can protect herself (which doesn't mean that he doesn't care; he simply doesn't worry as much), so now his main priority is saving his father. Remember, he already tried to get Jack to fight Jones, and now the only thing that's changed is he's realized that he doesn't need Jack. The end of DMC and most of AWE really takes Will down a darker path and leads to a lot of development for his character, both good and bad. Basically, he's a pirate.

Concerning the knife specifically, I think he's mostly just...numb. He's just seen his beloved fiance kissing another man (a man who'd just recently betrayed them all, no less), he knows that she's not telling him about it but doesn't know why (though he assumes it's because she loves Jack), and he can't keep his promise to his father because the one ship that can best the Dutchman is gone. In just about every sense of the word, he's lost. As AF said, that repetitive motion gives him something to focus on. By focusing on that one simple task, he's able to block out other things that plague his mind and therefore maintain his composure in front of the others. I do the same thing whenever I'm upset, though for me it's typically something a bit less destructive, like playing with my watch or braiding my hair.

And Eru, those are photoshopped. Long story short, Toby Markham (awesome guy- love 'im to death), who's a professional costumer (go to www.sithcamaro.com to see more of his work) and Jack Sparrow portrayer, decided that it'd be cool to design his own oriental Jack costume based on the designs of others. So, he pulled one together, took a few pictures, then decided to see what it would look like if Jack did actually wear the costume. He photoshopped it, put the pictures on his site, and before you know it, it's all over the internet that Jack's got a "new asian outfit." He's long since told us that it was fake, but it takes a lot longer to kill a rumor than it takes to start one.

(I had actually identified it as Toby long before he admitted to photoshopping it, but didn't say anything. The photoshop job itself is very good, and that wasn't actually what gave it away. Strangely enough, I identified him by his hands. The man has abnormally pale hands, and it always shows in his pictures. Weird, I know, but I can almost always pick out a TobyJack by looking at his hands. It's also not as evident in these pictures, but Toby has a much larger frame than Johnny Depp, which is the only reason he can't be a stunt double. He's more solidly built, and a bit taller as well.)

I love your posts, potr But I would disagree with you about one thing - I wouldn't call Will a dark character. I think if anything he's more intense than he is dark. I really like the "That's not good enough!" scene, because he's no longer the deferential, shy blacksmith's apprentice - he cares for Elizabeth and he doesn't care if they know it anymore.

And his slamming the axe into the table the map is spread out on is an expression of that - hang on, there's another instance of him slamming a weapon into a table! How coincidental!

Anyway, I don't think I would really call him dark. If anyone's dark, I would actually say it's Elizabeth more than Will.

_________________

Eh...In the beginning of CotBP, I could call him merely intense, but getting into DMC, he starts getting a bit darker...more Jack-like, as it were. By the time of AWE...trust me, he's darker. By no means Barbossa or Davy Jones or, heaven forbid, Beckett, but he's no knight in shining armor, either. In CotBP, the protagonist was Elizabeth (rescuing her). In DMC, it was Jack. In AWE, it's Will. When Will Turner gets focused on a goal, there is nothing that can possibly deter him (especially not when he's got that "touch of destiny" working for him), and he'll stop at nothing to see his goal accomplished. As I mentioned earlier, so far his goals have coincided with those of the audience and the "good guys," and therefore he's thus far been regarded as the indomitable hero who can do no wrong. But now that he's got his own agenda...yeah. Really the only person (besides his father) you can count on him being loyal to is Elizabeth, and even there, his loyalty only extends as far as making sure she remains unharmed. The battle with the Kraken in DMC is a pivotal piont for Will's character, because that's where we first see him really take charge. There's no one holding him to their own terms from now on. Will's calling the shots, and he's good at it. You can follow his lead or get out of his way.

((Oh, and just a side note- this is really funny to me because I can recall having exactly the same debate about Jack last year when people first started finding out how he would act in DMC (especially with the whole betraying Will thing)))

Well, I'll have to trust your judgement, as I'm sure you know far more spoilers than I, and accept that Will does get darker. But -



Do you really think so? I don't know, I think his loyalty to Elizabeth is greater than that. After all, part of the reason he's going to World's End to save Jack is because he thinks Elizabeth loves him! Jack, that is. Granted, the other part of the reason is that he needs the Pearl in order to have a fighting chance against the Dutchman, but I think that was only the thing that tipped him over the edge when he'd already pretty much decided. As much as it is possible to decide in the 3.45 seconds Tia gave him. (I'm gonna keel haul Tia...she complicates things too much!)

_________________

Elizabeth is part of his reason for going to World's End, but not actually the main reason. His main motivation remains getting back the Pearl. Whether or not her captain comes with her is secondary. And it's all really tricky with Will and Elizabeth right now, as far as the dynamics of their relationship. Will is still loyal to her and he does still care, but he's also still very hurt. And when I said that his loyalty essentially goes as far as ensuring that she remains unharmed, I mean emotionally as well as physically. He's still watching out for her and making sure that she doesn't get killed, but he's also willing to rescue Jack because it clearly means so much to her. I simply meant that, even though he remains loyal to her, they're no longer a team that communicates, but rather two individuals acting independently of each other.
I won't say much about it, but there is a scene in which Will essentially betrays everybody: Jack, Barbossa, and even Elizabeth, in a sense. We already have a picture of it (though Will's not in it), so y'all can look through the pics for clues. I will say, however, that it contains one of my favorite Barbossa lines: "The only way a pirate can make a profit, these days, is by betraying other pirates."

I've never really seen Will as a goody goody. Remember in CotBP, when he whacked Jack with the oar?

_________________
<center> .nph ftw.
[!~^$=+?]</center>

PotR is making some very good points, points that I very much agree with, but she's also freaking me out. In DMC, I considered Will to be the only "good-guy" in the whole thing. But... please tell me he's not going to be as bad as Jack! I'll be completely honest, Jack makes me laugh from time to time, but I hate every fiber in his dirty body. I don't mind if Will's dark... that's OK, as long as he's not bad.

Will is basically the reason I watch DMC. I don't care much for it except for Will. Will is my hero, my reason for staying interested in a lot of ways. Not because I am a fangirl; far be that from me! But because he always tries so hard to do what's right... and because he's like the one good person left when everything is corrupted and fallen. He's kind of... the hope for me in the movies, if that makes sense. Even when everyone else is bad, Will is still good.

I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that Will is a very passionate character. I've always agreed with that. And I will agree that he's a slightly dark character too. But if he goes bad... I believe a PotC boycott might be in order. As in, I would be sitting in the theater sobbing....

_________________
<center>-In Christ alone my hope is found, He is my light, my strength, my song-

^JF is awesome

There will come a time with no more tears
and love will not break your heart but dismiss your fears</center>

Awww... there you go, AF...

I don't know if we can really call any of the characters good or bad very clearly anymore. Despite what they all say - Jack being a good man - he's definetely done his share of not-so-good things. I'm sure I don't need to point them out. And Elizabeth, we all supposed, is good - but even in CotBP she broke her promise to Norrington, essentially something rather cruel to do to a man. And as we all know, she basically left Jack to die. Okay, I know this has been debated, but I think everyone would agree that although it may have been her only choice, it's the lesser of two evils, and still a bad thing to do. Elizabeth is by no means a goody-goody either.

So that does leave Will....but again, I don't think you can paint these characters white or black, good or bad. It's more complicated than that. I hope, personally, that Will doesn't abandon his morality entirely in AWE, but I think it's going to be necessary. At least somewhat.

_________________

I agree with you totally, AF. Jack is funny but...eh. I never liked him much because he was untrustworthy, he was out for himself. I always liked Will because he was good. No, not 'good.' GOOD. As in, he thought about people other than himself and tried to do the right thing. And I never saw either Elizabeth or Will as dark or shady; Will was simply deeply in love, causing passionate statements, and Elizabeth had a rebellious streak. I never thought either of them would turn pirate. Sure, the British aren't too great, but the pirates are a far cry from perfect. Why is it that everyone thinks a 'free' ocean with piracy running amuck is better than one with British rule? Neither is much fun, to be honest. But I see the ocean as a lot like a school...(goes into metaphor mode)

If the teachers (aka British) had all of the order they wanted, then school would be terrible. No fun, no talking, no goofing off. But if the students had their way, and there were no rules, there would also be no learning, no order or structure whatsoever. That's why you need a balance - teachers out to make the world orderly, students making it as chaotic as possible, and landing in a balance where school is structured but fun is allowed to the point where it's not too harmless. Hopefully this also minimizes the drugs and weapons at the school.

Sure, pirates' rum and swordfighting is part of their charm. I don't want them to disappear completely. But...I don't want them to take over. And I don't want the heroes to go over to their side. In Pirates 1, Will and Elizabeth were walking that line, and beginning to realize the world needed both the Pirates (students) and the British (teachers), and they were simply going to be at odds with each other. That was life. To me, that's what Norrington relized in the end of Pirates 1 - that he and Jack would always we competing, but neither were really the 'good' side.
And I liked that. I liked that so much in pirates, because it had the balance of 'good' pirates and 'good' biritsh, never quite knowing which one to root for, but ALWAYS having one pair to root for - Will and Elizabeth, because they were rooting for each other.

IMHO...They ending was so perfect, so it-needed-nothing-else. Will and Elizabeth were free to get married and, as I saw it, remain in British society, but be sympathetic towards pirates. Norrington and Jack were free to play cat-and-mouse for the rest of their days, a la Tom and Jerry, where they chased each other around, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, having great adventures but never really wanting to kill each other. The Governor was governor. Barbossa was DEAD.

And then...*sigh*

*ducks from tomatoes about to be thrown*

_________________
<center> all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us


Thank you for five-plus wonderful years of obsession, friendship and fun

On the contrary, I heartily agree. Perhaps CotBP left it right where it needed to be, aye? And we may never reach quite that spot again. And I'm going to be very sad if I see Will and Elizabeth STOP rooting for each other, and Will go darker. Because then who's left to cheer for?

_________________

Precisely!

_________________
<center> all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us


Thank you for five-plus wonderful years of obsession, friendship and fun