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PostPosted: September 5th, 2005, 10:20 pm 
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Linwe Culnamo wrote:
has anyone else been listening to the mugglecasts or the podcasts? they have great stuff about the HBP. you guys should check them out!


Ah yes I've listened to every one! In episode uh 2 of pottercast I think someone gave a really great argument on why Snape is evil. Now I'm not sure what I think about Snape :confused:

Elf Girl -- It's an iTunes show, so you have to have iTunes to get it. If you don't have an iPod then you can still download iTunes I think. It explains it

<a href="http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/pottercast/index.html">here</a>, or <a href="http://www.mugglenet.com/mugglecast/">here</a>

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Last edited by Beriadanwen on September 5th, 2005, 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: September 5th, 2005, 10:25 pm 
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[gasp]

Snape? Evil? I must listen to this argument!





Could someone give me a link please? :)

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PostPosted: September 5th, 2005, 10:31 pm 
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Well you can figure out how to listen to it here:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/pottercast/index.html

Or you can just read it here:

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/potte ... /show2.htm
(it starts at "In the Fan Corner")

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PostPosted: September 6th, 2005, 10:17 am 
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^i've just read about the half of the second one - interesting, i gotta admit *hurries off to read the rest*

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PostPosted: September 6th, 2005, 9:17 pm 
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I think my eyebrow rose and twitched at the end of that interview. O.o Which was followed by amused chuckling and deep sighs.

In response to the interview dealing with Snape [Debate: Evil!] with "Donna Hosie" interviewed by "Melissa Anelli":

Donna Hosie wrote:
For a start, you just have to look at his behavior, not just towards Harry, Hermione, and every other single student who isn’t a Slytherin, you have to look at his behavior towards Neville. You know this poor little kid who’s never done anything to him, ever, and yet Snape takes utter delight in sadistically humiliating him.


Yes, and he's also very much rude to every other student other than Slytherin. Actually, if give him enough reason, I'm sure he would even snarl at a meddling Slytherin as well. I don't think there isn't one time when he's not had to reprimand Draco Malfoy. I'm also sure that some of the previous Heads of Slytherin have been somewhat the same, if he/she were also in Slytherin. [Not saying Slughorn's one of them of course. I said some of the previous Heads.]

Donna Hosie wrote:
The things he does, in these books, not only would he not get away with it as a teacher in any normal country, he would be put in prison.


But we're not, are we? :)

Donna Hosie wrote:
In Order of the Phoenix, he actually physically assaulted Harry.


I'd be mad too if your arch enemy's son looked at the most humiliating memory of his life because of James Potter. Snape had also already been holding a grudge and anger to Harry before the incident.

Donna Hosie wrote:
And then you have to look at the words he uses: he’s never once called Voldemort anything other than the Dark Lord. Now, the only people who say "the Dark Lord" are Death Eaters.


I'm not quite sure if this is true or not, but this is...circumstantial, at best. I would think other people have used 'Dark Lord' as well and not just Death Eaters. Wouldn't you be sick of saying "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" all the time?

Donna Hosie wrote:
What we discovered in Order of the Phoenix, Bellatrix says it, that you’ve got to mean an Unforgivable Curse for it to work, so there is just absolutely no getting around this.


This could be true or untrue. I could accept it if it were true that Snape really meant to kill Dumbledore [which is very much believable]. But the thing is, Bellatrix said in general you cannot perform an Unforgivable Curse without meaning it. She meant for everyone, every wizard but as we all know all wizards and witches aren't the same. We don't know if it cannot be performed without meaning it if you're a Legilimens. I think, because being a Legilimens, you have alot of advantages, especially perssisting to the mind. And to have to really MEAN something you really have to think about it.

Donna Hosie wrote:
You can’t make excuses for this: Snape murdered Dumbledore, and that’s a fact.


Yes, Snape killed Dumbledore but there's more to this simple horrifying act than meets the eye.

Donna Hosie wrote:
People have got to look at the bigger picture here - would Dumbledore really leave Harry at this point in his life? I know Dumbledore is not scared of death, but would Dumbledore, at this point, actually choose to die when he knows that Harry still has several of the Horcruxes left to destroy? I...I just...I refuse to believe that Dumbledore would choose to die at this point! I want to believe, I need to believe that Dumbledore wanted to see this, with Harry, through to the bitter end. By the time we get to the end of the Half-Blood Prince they’re equals. They’re relying on each other. I just, if you look at the bigger picture...I, I, no, it’s not Dumbledore. I can’t see Dumbledore wanting to die. And I think simply he’s pleading with Snape because he knows, he can see it, he can see the battle going on in Snape’s mind, he can see that Snape’s about to kill him!


Several points:
Of course Dumbledore wouldn't want to leave the wizarding world when it's in its more dangerous position. Of course he wouldn't want to die leaving Harry all that he possibly knows and for Harry to do it on his own. Of course, Dumbledore didn't want to spoil that good apple-strawberry pie at Madame Rosmerta's during his last summer as the Headmaster of Hogwarts. The human reflex- the animal reflex when put into a live-death situation is to try to SURVIVE. But what choice did he have? With Snape possibly telling him about his Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa Malfoy and Snape was his only valuable connection to what Voldemort could possibly be up to.
Point #2: As mentioned previously above. Snape is a Legilimens, I don't think Dumbledore would've been able to actually see that Snape was fighting with himself simply because I don't think Snape wouldn't be one to fight with himself...with his conscious [as Harry started doing in HBP ]. Of course it COULD be a side affect of being a Legilimens, what if we're looking at to completely different Snapes, here?

Donna Hosie wrote:
I think that it’s been stressed, not just in Half-Blood Prince but also by Jo in that interview you did, that, you know, when Dumbledore makes a mistake, it is colossal, and what bigger mistake could he have made than to trust Severus Snape?


Um...admitting Tom Riddle into Hogwarts, observe his behavior and notice that he could be a dangerous wizard one day and only idly watch and observe as Tom Riddle steadily turns into Voldemort and thus the plot of the Harry Potter series? [shrug] Ever think about that? I think Dumbledore's made a whole bunch of huge colossal mistakes. Him trusting Snape would only be the one mistake that eventually lead to his downfall.

Donna Hosie wrote:
Harry then steps, makes a foot, steps a foot out of line in this book, and so...by the end of Half-Blood Prince, if Harry is saying, "Severus is evil," I’m going to go with Harry!


Harry has said that about Snape ever since the second he MET Snape. Snape being evil is basically Harry's RELIGION. Actually....about 80% of the time Harry thinks something, he turns out to be wrong so...the percentage is against him. Sorry. Drink Pepsi, try again!

Donna Hosie wrote:
With my Marauder pals I spend a lot of time thinking up suitable death for Snape. I hate bullies! You know? I think it’s because I’m a mom, and, you know, I hate to see that.


This one really made me laugh. I would like to remind everyone that the Marauders were the one that were bullying Snape when they attended Hogwarts. "Let's look at the big piciture, shall we?" :)

Overall...the interview...wasn't really good for any real argument whether or not Snape is evil >.> It seems very much opinionized [<--word?] and, I don't know...very very unconvincing. Since she used alot of insults to Snape, which I feel, even if it's a character that you aren't fond of --- I don't think anyone, especially a mother, should use so many excessive words against a particular individual whether it be real or fictional.

And I quote:
Melissa Anelli wrote:
So, in Don’s email to us, she said that Snape is an utter evil thing-I-can’t-say-on-this-and-retain-a-PG-rating. So, I want to hear your opening argument.

Donna Hosie wrote:
"He...he’s just...he’s vile!"
--------
"He’s just, he’s a scumbag of the worst order."
--------
"Really, he is just a sadistic, vile, nasty, horrible bit of work. Death by boiling in a vat of, uh, shampoo..."
--------
"Oh, I was thinking of some others, as well, you know. It’s got to involve his hair, so, like, Death By Blow Dryer..."
--------
"He’s got to pay. I want to see him cry. I want to see some emotion, there, from this man. I’d love to see him totally humiliated, you know? I want to see... I want to see him cry."
--------
"I... to me, no redemption for Snape. There, there’s just no redemption there. I don’t care what he does, I don’t care if he ends up helping Harry, you know, if he suddenly turns around and says he wants to adopt him. Yeah, just......no redemption. Well, if there’s a bag of kittens drowning in the river. Even if Snape stripped off to his gray underpants, dived in and saved them... I, I just, I wouldn’t care. That wouldn’t redeem me."


Why do I get the impression that if Voldemort turned around and wanted to adopt Harry, she'd suddenly say "Yey! Voldie's turned good! Right on!" or maybe it's because Voldie skipped over the school bullying and went onto World Domination. World Domination for Dummies! Two easy steps onto being the world's biggest threat and soul-seperating power-hungry wizard! Wand, skull-like mask, red eye contacts, and a ridiculously evil croaking voice recording not included.

Quote:
MA: Umm, let’s then end on...Remus Lupin.

DH: He’s going to live, and he’s going to meet a witch called Donna, and they’re going to get married and live happily ever after in a big mansion in Hogsmeade.


Poor Tonks. :(




Yay for ridiculously long posts!

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PostPosted: September 8th, 2005, 8:35 pm 
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Double post- 24 hours later.



Maybe....too ridiculous?

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PostPosted: September 16th, 2005, 10:44 pm 
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Sorry sorry I forgot about this thread.

Kitoky wrote:
Donna Hosie wrote:
And then you have to look at the words he uses: he’s never once called Voldemort anything other than the Dark Lord. Now, the only people who say "the Dark Lord" are Death Eaters.


I'm not quite sure if this is true or not, but this is...circumstantial, at best. I would think other people have used 'Dark Lord' as well and not just Death Eaters. Wouldn't you be sick of saying "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" all the time?


The fact that he says still 'Dark Lord' irks me.

Quote:
Donna Hosie wrote:
I think that it’s been stressed, not just in Half-Blood Prince but also by Jo in that interview you did, that, you know, when Dumbledore makes a mistake, it is colossal, and what bigger mistake could he have made than to trust Severus Snape?


Um...admitting Tom Riddle into Hogwarts, observe his behavior and notice that he could be a dangerous wizard one day and only idly watch and observe as Tom Riddle steadily turns into Voldemort and thus the plot of the Harry Potter series? [shrug] Ever think about that? I think Dumbledore's made a whole bunch of huge colossal mistakes. Him trusting Snape would only be the one mistake that eventually lead to his downfall.


I disagree that admitting Tom Riddle into Hogwarts was a mistake. What could he have done? Tom is a wizard, he's been put down for Hogwarts since the day he was born. When Dumbledore found out what he was like, he couldn't simply leave him there at the orphanage. Tom Riddle is an incredibly complicated individual who has hate for everything around him. No matter what Dumbledore did he would have turned out bad and caused harm to many people. Letting Tom Riddle come to Hogwarts in hopes of straightening him out is the most sensible thing he could have done at the time. And as for "observing his behavior and noticing that he could be a dangerous wizard one day and only idly watch and observe as Tom Riddle steadily turns into Voldemort and thus the plot of the Harry Potter series?" -- What could Dumbledore have done? All of the teachers loved Tom - he was the perfect student. Nobody would have believed him.

And I do agree that Dumbledore trusting Snape would be the biggest mistake he ever made if Snape turned out evil. After he had assured so many people that he was on the Order's side, and entrusted him with so much information.

Not that I think that Snape is evil :P

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PostPosted: September 17th, 2005, 6:29 pm 
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Why does it seem the only long posted-discussion in this thread has mostly been about Snape. Hmmm, I wonder.

Meh, whether or not Snape comes out to be good or evil, I'll still love 'im. Because evil rocks, right Beriad?




Hey, I don't remember but did Tom ever mention during his schooldays that his name would be officially turned to "Voldemort"

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PostPosted: September 17th, 2005, 8:01 pm 
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Kitoky wrote:
Why does it seem the only long posted-discussion in this thread has mostly been about Snape. Hmmm, I wonder.

Meh, whether or not Snape comes out to be good or evil, I'll still love 'im. Because evil rocks, right Beriad?


Oh yeah definately :vampire:

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Hey, I don't remember but did Tom ever mention during his schooldays that his name would be officially turned to "Voldemort"


Do you mean did he change his name to Voldemort, or plan to, while he was still at school? I'm not sure :blink:

A question out of curiosity - how many times has everyone here read the 6th book? (I've read it just the one time)

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PostPosted: September 17th, 2005, 9:32 pm 
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Beriadanwen wrote:
Kitoky wrote:
Why does it seem the only long posted-discussion in this thread has mostly been about Snape. Hmmm, I wonder.

Meh, whether or not Snape comes out to be good or evil, I'll still love 'im. Because evil rocks, right Beriad?


Oh yeah definately :vampire:

Quote:
Hey, I don't remember but did Tom ever mention during his schooldays that his name would be officially turned to "Voldemort"


Do you mean did he change his name to Voldemort, or plan to, while he was still at school? I'm not sure :blink:

A question out of curiosity - how many times has everyone here read the 6th book? (I've read it just the one time)


About the Snape. . . wait - he isn't a thing! Okay, about Snape, I think we all subconsciencly worship, wait no because there are many of us who openly grovel him. . . so. . . we all subconsciencly wish to emulate him. And even deeper in our subconscience, we all know that we are actually like him. . . whether we want to or not. Hmmm. . . . He DEFINATELY rocks my face off though.
And I don't know anything about Tom actually changing his name, whether at school or not. Hmmm. . . . and me definately thinks Tom Riddle is my favourite character. . . . besides Sirius. . . .

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PostPosted: September 18th, 2005, 11:45 am 
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Quote:
A question out of curiosity - how many times has everyone here read the 6th book? (I've read it just the one time)


Ceased to remember :-D But by heart I'd say ... 6 or 7 times. Now call me crazy ...


And - MontanaBohemian, I agree about liking Snape. He's one of my faves at Hogwarts :-D

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PostPosted: September 18th, 2005, 1:01 pm 
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I've only read the book once........can you tell that I reread Snape parts though? xD



Anyways ---- I wouldn't be surprised if Tom Riddle decided to already create a Death Eater alliance with his Slytherin 'home boys' and have already been changed his name maybe last year of Hoggywarts?

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PostPosted: September 18th, 2005, 2:18 pm 
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Kitoky wrote:
I've only read the book once........can you tell that I reread Snape parts though? xD



Anyways ---- I wouldn't be surprised if Tom Riddle decided to already create a Death Eater alliance with his Slytherin 'home boys' and have already been changed his name maybe last year of Hoggywarts?


I forgot to say that I've read it twice, the second time only because I read it so fast the first time that I definately missed some things. :P ;) Ha ha ha.

If he did "officially" change his name (because I just think he made everyone call him that, but it wouldn't "officially" change his name. . . ) I agree with you Kitoky, about it being changed his last year at Hogwarts. That would definately be the "prime time" to do it. And I think his creative-ness definately flourished at Hogwarts, so yeah. Anyways. . . .

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PostPosted: September 18th, 2005, 2:44 pm 
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I think Voldy himself mentions about changing name in CoS - that he did it during his school years but only his so-called friends ...

But I'll never forget Snape for his betrayal. How dares he! This - put your own words in - traitor! OK, I like him & all but ... *writes the name Snape, than spits at it*

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PostPosted: September 18th, 2005, 3:15 pm 
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Ah but the thing is we don't know if Snape actually...did anything to betray the order.... It sure makes it seems that way but, like I said earlier, we need to focus on what is not said rather than what is in fine print in front of us.

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PostPosted: September 18th, 2005, 5:02 pm 
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I reread the first chapter with bella/narcissa and snape - what an awesome chapter! and the dumbledore/draco convo near the end. And did you know that they american version has more in it than the british version (which I have). I found it on the internet. Dumbledore says more about hiding draco's parents and stuff...I'll try to find it.

EDIT: Here it is:

From the American edition (text missing from the UK edition in orange):

"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...When the time comes we can protect him too. Come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP US Edition pg 591)

MontanaBohemian wrote:
Hmmm. . . . and me definately thinks Tom Riddle is my favourite character


Oh mine too! Besides Dumbledore, Bellatrix, Draco, Fred and George....actually I can't really decide who my favorite character is. About Tom though...he's such an interesting character and I loved reading all his background in HBP

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