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Post subject:  Posted: January 14th, 2008, 11:22 am |
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Well you see PD, that's the huge difference between the People's Choice Awards and the Oscars. Ordinary people, like you and me, like to be entertained and if we like a film because we just like it, it's a good film in our eyes. But the Oscars and the other big awards are looking at films from a more technical point of view - how well it was made, did the musical score go well with the film etc.
Big action packed movie blockbusters such as Spiderman, National Treaure, POTC etc etc. I like them all, but as good as I think they are, I can't honestly say that any of them really deserve to be nominated in categories that films like LOTR, because they are technically not as good. Yep, some categories do fit them and they all deserve a nomination for special effects or something like that but they're just popcorn flicks in comparison to the films you tend to see nominated for Best Picture and all the other things.
The Oscars do seem to be very stuffy sometimes, and yet other times they're not. They seem to like films which send out a message, or are a biopic of someone, and if you get a film about someone with some sort of mental problem, then you know you're going to do well. But there have been a few suprises over the years, good or bad.
And the smaller films. Well... I think it's good personally that smaller films get a look in, as small doesn't mean "worse". Little known films that never had the chance to be shown a million times over (like POTC), yet still get nominated... that says something about the quality of the production, that it didn't need a million people loving it or hating it, for it to be worthy.
One thing they need to change though, is they need a category for musical/comedy films and performances. There have been a lot of great actors and films down the years who have never won an Oscar because basically, if you're in a musical or a comedy you won't win. That's why I like the Golden Globes because they don't try and put a serious role about someone coping with the death of his wife, the suicide of his daughter, the burning down of his death and the fleeing of his favourite pooch, against someone who is happily trimming a hedge and then suddenly bursts into song.
My brother should be writing this though. He knows more about films than most reviewers and he's not biased either so he can sit in both sides of the fence quite comfortably. 
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Post subject: Posted: January 14th, 2008, 2:36 pm |
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hmm, you have a good point, JF.  thanks for replying to me... it's helped clear some things up a bit. But still, to me, it doesn't seem fair that the bigger movies get left out like they do just because they get classified as "big, popcorn movies that normal people enjoy"... because they aren't just action movies that're for the fun of it. I mean, the PotC music score should get a nomination... it's a masterpiece... maybe not like LotR, but definitely better than some of the movies that do get nominated. And the director… I mean he’s just as good as any other. And after watching a bit of the Critic’s Choice… I mean, all those directors and then Tim Burton was there… and he didn't win?  He so should’ve! I mean I’d just like to know how these critics judge! And the bigger movies are very well made too.... so I, personally, think they deserve at least nominations just like LotR and all the rest. Little Miss Sunshine won for Best Picture last year, right? Well, out of the movies last year I probably liked that one the least. And even looking at it from a non-prejudiced viewpoint I still can’t see where that they got out of it that made it deserve that. I don’t mean to be harsh toward it, whoever likes it, go ahead and like it! But when you hear about all of these awards shows and they all nominate weird movies! It’s just a tad suspicious to me, I guess.... nothing against the small movies, but really. 
Well, I know and understand that. It’s good that they don’t just ignore the “smaller” guys because they aren’t as well known. You’re right, just because they aren’t quite as universal doesn’t mean they still aren’t good and don‘t deserve something… but it just seems that they’re paying more attention to the small ones and trying to make it TOO fair.
No, JF, you do make perfect sense… I guess I still just don’t see what exactly they look at when they’re nominating a movie… because even trying to look at it from a pure non-prejudiced viewpoint, I still can‘t see where they get what they get sometimes. I mean, sure, something with a deep, moving story deserves something, but that doesn’t mean something that has a meaning but it’s not the only thing in the movie doesn’t deserve anything just because the meaning isn’t quite as strong (yes, PotC does come to mind here)... does that makes sense?
I guess I have a thing against critics anyway because I’ve seen them rate and review movies… and they do some of the weirdest and in my opinion prejudiced things! giving marvelous movies one star and giving movies that I thought stunk 5 stars… and their reviews just don’t seem very… ummm, right either.  Like they really don't know the movie their reveiwing... but I guess each person is gonna have a different POV on different things… and each person is gonna get different things out of a movie. I just thought critics weren’t suppose to be prejudiced like it seems like they are sometimes.
Blah... I hope that came out right! 
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Post subject: Posted: January 14th, 2008, 3:13 pm |
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Joined: 10 July 2005
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Critics these days are just too critical. they forget that films essentially are to entertain, and if being entertained in such a way that makes you leave the cinema smiling, means you have to use your imaginiation and believe there are zombie pirates mingled with oridinary people and cursed treasure and tentacly pirates, then that's what you have to do.
Critics also can't see past the special effects, dodgy acting, script that could be better and slighly unrealistic storyline. All they can see is the fact that's it's not a Citizen Kane of the modern day world. In short, they are usually blind and they have forgotten that if you come out of the cinema and you think "I was very much entertained" then it is is a good film. It doesn't matter if parts of it were absurd or there was a special effect that looked out of date 15 years ago, if you liked it even for one thing only, and it was enough to please you, then no critic or Academy Award member can say it's a bad film, merely because it made lots of money and didn't try and drive home a message to the viewer.
Films essentially used to be light hearted. Sure, there would be the dark and depressing films, but there would be so many musicals, and comedies and films to make you happy! Now in the modern age we have the equivalent, blow-your-mind special effects blockbusters with storys so silly you don't really care about, and characters that you have to like, it is basically the same thing. Entertaining.
I don't mind that the Oscars don't award these type of films that much, as I can see their point, and I know enough about all the hundreds of films that have been nominated through the years, to see they do follow some sort of "code". Even the most entertaining romps of the 40's and 50's, never received any awards either.
But what does annoy me is when a film is almost condemned for being "entertaining".
Ok, that was a rant.
Yeah, I know what you mean PD. Sometimes I don't know where they get the nominations from either, but then again, for the really technical stuff it's hard for people like us to judge who have no knowledge of scenery and stuff like that. Special effects, maybe because we can tell when we see a SE whether we think it looks good or not.
As I said, Hollywood loves films that have a meaning, or are simple. They dislike adaptations on the whole (so Atonemnet has surprised me) and remakes. Epics are good as well, they like their epics.
I wish more fuss was made about the People's Awards, what better award than that chosen by the people who can make or break a film by loving it or hating it, and who rocket people's careers to stardom if they are liked? 
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Post subject: Posted: January 14th, 2008, 8:04 pm |
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Listen to JF, PD.
The film industry is sort of like art, in a way. If you took a People's Choice of art, you'd probably get a lot of people who like Degas' Ballerinas, or Van Gogh's Starry Night. Most people would not pick Picasso's Young Ladies in a Brothel, or Andy Warhol's Campbell Soup. When I look at modern art, I just see a red square, or a black splatter, or a stupid picture of a Campbell's soup can. Yet for reasons unknown to me these are masterpieces that people pay millions of dollars for and are hung in the most prestigious galleries! The Oscars, being run by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, are voted on by people who have an eye and specific mindset and can see the parts that the public miss. So I don't think it's fair to compare the People's Choice and the Oscars, I think we should just recognize that there are two ways for a film to be good.
(And actually, The Departed won best picture last year.  )
Johnny's Fan wrote: One thing they need to change though, is they need a category for musical/comedy films and performances. There have been a lot of great actors and films down the years who have never won an Oscar because basically, if you're in a musical or a comedy you won't win. That's why I like the Golden Globes because they don't try and put a serious role about someone coping with the death of his wife, the suicide of his daughter, the burning down of his death and the fleeing of his favourite pooch, against someone who is happily trimming a hedge and then suddenly bursts into song.
I agree! But there is more emotion to show in a tragedy, and some musicals and comedies have won Best Picture. But they have gotten much darker lately. _________________ 
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Post subject: Posted: January 14th, 2008, 9:10 pm |
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Yes, listen to me I am... I am... possibly without a life as I watch too many films and spend too many hours discussing them.
*nods* That's a very good point about the art as well Taur, a good example. (Modern art.... urk...I should throw myself off a bridge and then say "look at me... I'm arrrrrt!"  )
I think the majority of people can probably have their say of which film out of the Best Picture nominess was the best, or which actor deserves the Best Actor Oscar, but the members of the Academy have to go with much more than what is simply best. The best film I saw last year was POTC: AWE, but I couldn't have given it the Best Picture Oscar, as the Oscars are chosen on a film which is technically the best, not the most fun or enjoyable, but how well everything works within itself, acting, writing, sound, make-up etc. And how they choose actors.... why should a Cary Grant comedy performance which is as close to a perfect performance I have ever seen, be deemed unworthy because it is not a serious role? I don't get that. I think out of all the categories, actor and actress seem to be more wrong than all the others put together.
You have to actually give credit to the Academy Award members for doing this job..... I'll say this now, as when the awards are read out I'll probably be cursing them as always. I know I couldn't do it, any film with someone in it I like .... "bingo, that's my Best Piccie!" ... I would be way too biased.
Yes, there have been a couple of musicals that won Best Picture, Gigi, My Fair Lady and the odd peformance, Julie Andrews (who should never have won by the way ), but I don't think it is technically any less demanding playing a serious role than a light hearted one that can also include acting, dancing and singing in the most unreal circumstances. You often find these gritty films that tend to be Oscar winners, everyone involved can research their role as killer, cop or whatever... you're a bit stuck if you're in a musical or a comedy.
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Post subject: Posted: January 14th, 2008, 9:59 pm |
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Joined: 19 September 2006
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i'm kind of on the side of the critics, but that's merely a matter of taste, rather than of priniciple. i like films that make me think, and i like performances that give me goosebumps, and i like directors who push the boundaries, and i like writing that blows me away. don't get me wrong, i like films that are purely entertaining too, but i always prefer the deeper ones, so they're the ones that i would give the awards to. not because i'm snobbish or because they adhere to a certain set of rules, but just because i like them better. as i said though, that's just a matter of taste.
that's not to say that i always agree with the critics and awards judges, though - i've done my fair share of shouting at the telly and the newspapers.
i think the reason film critics write and vote the way they do is simply a matter of taste, too. if critics seem overly picky and serious, it's just because it's people like me, who naturally analyse films and demand more than entertainment, that become critics.
and as a side note, i was very happy to see us brits picking up a few awards this year, including three of the biggies (best actor, best actress and best film). it's possibly because the judges are so hacked off with the WGA, but whatever.
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Post subject: Posted: January 16th, 2008, 12:52 am |
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Oh pooh! well, I don't really know about the people who judge paintings anyway, but some paintings ARE masterpieces... and then there's the ones that any fourth grader can do... well, they aren't. I mean, don't ya think that even I could go out and fling a bunch of paint at a canvas and come out with some of these... umm, award winning paintings?
but now that's getting off the topic...
yes, JF, that's exactly it! The critics don't look past all that stuff. All they see is what's on the outside of the film. They don't pay attention to the deep meaning of the films like real fans who REALLY care about the flick they're seeing. They just don't and really can't see the good, deep stuff because they don't look deep enough into the movie. They basically have to be shown what the movie is about without actually using their imagination and discovering that there's more than just action, adventure, special effects and all that. And just because a movie is deeper than the critics even want to dig into doesn't mean it's a bad movie. (and I know it would be near impossible for them TO go that into detail with every movie... but still  it is their job.)
well, to me (and it'll probably remain that way) it really annoyed me that the critics can't/don't give away Oscars to other films that really deserve them too. *sigh* It's kind of silly that to get an award a movie has to follow a "code". I mean... that's not what it's suppose to be all about, is it?
still.... I just wish that the critics and Hollywood would look into the movies that have a deeper meaning... I mean, that's why I love the Choice Award shows... because the fans (for the most part) are voting there... and the fans know what they want and they tend to know the movies better (in some ways. Of course you do have a point that maybe not everyone knows all the picky things the critics do). Thank you, JF! I'm happy you think that too.... the people do make or break these films... they totally deserve a voice in them!
Johnny's Fan wrote: [color=white]I think the majority of people can probably have their say of which film out of the Best Picture nominess was the best, or which actor deserves the Best Actor Oscar, but the members of the Academy have to go with much more than what is simply best. The best film I saw last year was POTC: AWE, but I couldn't have given it the Best Picture Oscar, as the Oscars are chosen on a film which is technically the best, not the most fun or enjoyable, but how well everything works within itself, acting, writing, sound, make-up etc. And how they choose actors....
I would like to have friendly disagreement with you there, JF. because the way I see it AWE was by far the best movie of last year and it DOES deserve an Oscar in that category. Sheesh, I mean the acting was the best, everything flows (well, for the people who pay attention like I'm sure you and me and others ), the writing was amazing and the make-up was pretty good... and the sound! The best since LotR by far! Now I know by now you're probably laughing and knowing that I'm pro anything Pirates, but even putting on a non-prejudiced attitude toward it there's simply no way around it. I mean, out of all the movies last year... the actors are some of the highest quality in Pirates... there's nothing out there to compare. It could at least be given a nomination.
Eh, and what is this about movies that are entertaining and movies that are deep and serious anyway? what exactly is considered which? I mean some, like PotC and LotR and maybe even Narnia (maybe ) and a few others, are kind of in-between. I guess I've never really seen a movie that was only serious and deep... or else I just didn't know it. Either way, I don't think there's really any way around it... I'm stuck against the critics... they've gone a step to far with some things in my book. And I guess my mind's been made up against them for a while anyway.... and it seems like once I have an idea and research it and study on it, it just grows firmer in my mind. (never been one to go along with what everyone else says or thinks anyway so this just come naturally )
Ok, so I'll finally end the umber long rant... sorry you had to sit through it, guys! 
(oh, really, Taur? The Departed won last year? like I said before, that goes to show how much I really know about these Award shows... and I even watched the Oscars last year too! lol)
_________________ Chase a couple hearts, we could leave 'em in shreds
Meet me in the gutter, make the devil your friend
Just remember what I said, cause it isn't over yet
Get.Lost.In.The.Dark.To.Find.Yourself
-sig by Loafers-
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