What wouldn't be weird in your opinion?
Holding hands? An emotionless peck on the cheek?

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See THAT would have been weird to me.

You also have to remember that the PotC story takes place in the 18th century, also seen as the "age of enlightenment" and "age of reason" and was a quite liberal era in our history. This was before the English Victorian Era which made all things intimate "dirty" unless they happened behind closed doors between a lawfully wedded couple and never spoken about. Most English speaking countries are still "brainwashed" by the Victorian Era today sadly

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No, not at all. The last scene with Will and Elizabeth was quite all right, thank you very much. And I don't believe I ever once said anything about "an emotionaless peck on the cheek" as that would have been plain stupid, nevermind weird.

Well, I definitely won't be getting into the Victorian era brainwashing, as I think we can all agree this is neither the time or the place. I'm presuming the writers were just interested in showing a scene of Will and Elizabeth that was slightly more than kissing, more so than demonstarting the liberal era in which they lived.

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Well I think that both sides of the debate have very strong points and I must say that I agree with both (up to an extent) on this matter about the Willabeth scene. Personaly speaking I did not love it but it being there was fine by me. I saw it as they were married and were going to be apart for a really long time. It was a disney movie but it was PG 13 and it did not take it too far (as far as I am concerned when taken into consideration it's rating). However at the same time they could have taken part of that scene out and that also would have been fine with me. I do see what JF is talking about when she says that it was unWillabeth like. We really did not see that side of Willabeth throughout the movie (in my opinion). As I stated earlier I think that that was more of a Sparowbeth scene. Quite odd indeed. Then again perhaps Will and Elizabeth's morals (and that day in age.) restricted them from acting in such a manner until they were Mr. and Mrs. Turner. Kind of like Aragorn and Arwen? (Sorry if that is incorrect but I honestly do not know much about the Caribbean and their people's moral standards in the 18 centrary)
Also to be quite honest I think that they added that scene so people would not question William III paternity (though some still do).
Now as for the bars scene. I think that Elizabeth was just talking about being wed. I believe that she meant that she would marry Will. Then that her father just did not wish for his daughter to marry the local blacksmith/pirate friend that had gotten her thrown in jail in the first place. I could be wrong but that is what I think.

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Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&? Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!

So...what would be "normal" in your eyes?
I'm just curious.

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Phoenix, Are you reffering to Jf saying that it was a slightly weird scene or me saying that it was quite odd or to both? If it was the latter of the three of the secound then, personaly I would have to say them kissing passionately on the beach and it fading into black would not have been weird (in my opinion). That would have been more inline with the Willabeth that we have seen, I think.

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Destiny I'm a Christian boycrazy girl. Will Turner's wife ^&? Avatar by JF, banners by Taurquende, Nurrantiel Mashiara, Silme Meleth TarNymphadora, and JF taught me how to use banners. Thanks to all!

I admire your honesty and the fact that you can see both sides of the argument. I have to agree with you on all points that you made and it does make some sort of sense now, hearing about the fact that if we hasn't seen that scene, would more people be wondering if Will was the father of Will Junior. And I am glad to see I am not the only one who got that impression about the jail scene.

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The question was a general one. I wasn't singling anyone out, or else I would have used a name.

I thought the scene was perfect as it was. It showed a couple who were not going to see each other for ten years. It conveyed there deep love and passion for one another. There was nothing inappropriate nor immoral about what they did.

As for the jail scene in DMC. I automatically thought that she meant sexually.It was all in the tone of her voice in reflected in her eyes, and as has been said. If she just meant something like marriage, then why did her father react the way he did. He had already accepted there love, so I think he was taken aback by how forward his daughter was with Will.

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I think the jail scene and "I'd have you already" was written so as to be ambiguous. Or else it was written to mean marriage and Keira's acting just made it look naughty, I don't know which.

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As for the jail scene, I thought that Elizabeth was talking about marriage but her father understood it the other way, being the protective father that he is.

I thought the beach scene was a little weird, but there was nothing inappropriate or immoral about what they were doing. They were married, for heaven's sake. But, you know, showing him kissing her leg? It just made me a little squirmy. As DD suggested, seeing them kiss passionately and then fading would have worked perfectly fine. For those who have imaginations, it would work. For those who don't, well then, they don't have to worry about it.

All the same, I don't hate the scene or anything. It's fine, and overall, really sweet actually. Though I don't think my sister really got it until she saw the son at the end. "But how...*pause* Oh."

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in my opinion.....both scenes are fine....though it made me feel alittle unconfortable the first time i saw them but now i think they are fine.....i think that no matter what way you take it, it works. for the older people like us....we can think of diff. meanings and they are fine for us to see because we are older and more miture....and for the younger children ( meaning probably around 11-12 and younger) they either may not understand it in the first place or understand it in a way that is appropriate for them.......i think that whatever they understand and what ever meaning they get from those scenes...if they can understand those meanings then they are able to see them on screen.

and its not they they full out said anything or showed anything.....its still pg-13 ( again this is just my personal opinion though)

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I completely agree with you.

I never actually once mentioned the word immoral or anything like that. My only problem with the scene is how unlike Will and Elizabeth it appeared to me.

That's all.

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I have to say, I didn't exactly agree with the last Willabeth scene either. You know they're in love, and Will certainly shows a complete devotion to Elizabeth. But let us take a look at the scenes with Elizabeth. First it was just little breaches between classes in the first movie: "Call me Elizabeth," "I had a dream about you," etc.. Then there was the jail scene in the second one, which at first I took to mean marriage, but after it sort of soaked in, I could have been referring just as easily to sex. Also in the second one was the whole "I want Jack most in the world." So through the first two films you get a fairly lustful Elizabeth, which you would not expect from a girl with a sheltered upbringing as she must have had, being from an old, high-classed family. To be fair, there are scenes in which she is not like this, but they don't stand out as much against the ones in which she is.

So it seems a little inappropriate to try to get in as much as a sex scene as you can in a PG-13 movie with violence. Especially with the two most dignified characters in the trilogy. I mean, I don't take any particular pleasure in imagining the two... conceiving. For me personally, it's a little bit revolting, I guess as if they were my parents. (Though I never care to see that either.) It's also just a bad impression, to hear Jack talking about picking up a couple of wenches every ten years, which is appropriate for his character, then see that scene with Will and Elizabeth... It almost leaves me with the impression that Elizabeth is Will's wench to satify his lust every ten years. Everyone knows that's not the case, but like I said, it's just a bad impression.

For me, a better ending would have been passionately kissing on a beach at sunset, maybe with some tears on Elizabeth's part, and some poetic dialouge.

I hope all this comes across okay. I meant all of this respectfully towards anyone who disagrees. I don't want this discussion to turn into a debate on whether sex is good or bad, but I do want to say that, especially in the case of Will and Elizabeth, the sexual relations of a couple is a private affair between the two. Because of respect of privacy for the couple and for the sake of the the rest of the world, who doesn't want to intrude.

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^ By me and my SS *squiggle hugs*

This is a discussion thread, no? Where we all come to express our own personal thoughts and opinions?
We're all perfectly entitled to voice our opinions without it being classed as a debate. Believe it or not I do respect everyones opinions, wether they agree with my take on scenes or not.

With that out of the way...lol

Taurquende: Which sex scene are you referring to? I don't recall seeing one at all. I understand certain things may seem distasteful to you and I truly do respect that. I don't look at the scene as Elizabeth being Will's wench. From my pov..she was as much into what was happening as he was. In fact, she instigated it as much.

Considering some of the actions of both Will and Elizabeth, I'm not sure dignified is the right word to use for them. Norrington was dignified (for the most part) as was Elizabeths father. But again, this is just from my perspective.

Will and Elizabeths relationship has evolved into something very deep, very passionate and overall very loving. That's what keeps relationships going, growing with one another.

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I guess it all depends on in which kind of family, country and culture you were raised in. Here in Sweden, sex and nudity is considered something natural and normal, it's always G-rated and features in family movies even! So to me, a real actual sex scene (that beach scene was not a sex scene, not even close to one! See "The Piano" - there's a sex scene for ya!) would only have been normal, especially in a PG-13 film. But, I realize that America has different standards for ratings than Sweden

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